[Evan Fleisher]

Anyone played there?

Well, I did this past weekend and thought it a really interesting piece of property and golf course.  The place opened for play in 2000 and was designed by a gentleman named Barry Serafin (architect from Columbus? I don't know anything about him or his courses).  I found out about it a few years back because one of my wife's cousin's in-laws owns the place!

The terrain used for this layout is in a word: severe...tumbling ground, heavily wooded, ponds and streams, rock outcroppings, etc., and the course seems to follow the natural flows and contours of the land quite well.  Holes seemed to be well placed, but for the most part that meant long distances between greens and tees making for an incredibly difficult walk (coming from me, that means it is a REALLY tough walk!).

What most golfers will find difficult here is the sloping nature of all the fairways...many well struck shots still end up bounding "out"...into the woods, ponds, collection areas, etc.  I was pretty fortunate to be hitting the ball well that day and only ended up losing one ball...my playing partner was not so fortunate.

The greens had some wild internal contours and slopes to them making for very difficult recovery shots around the putting surfaces.  And due to the extreme terrain those recovery shots were often from an awkward stance or lie.  Getting the ball close with a chip, pitch, or flop was a real art.  Putting was hard to figure out, but a fun challenge nonetheless.

Many of the holes have dramatic vistas and views as you are really "out in the middle of nowhere" on this course...there were plenty of "ohhhhs" and "ahhhhs" as we approached a new teebox and looked around.  Most teeing areas were perched on hilltops to some sort of fairway that tumbled down the line of play.

A few holes seemed to be "forced" into play to create flow and really use the land "as it stood"...but even those holes (like the 12th) presented a challenge that was worth the effort and focus.  They also have a par-6 hole, and although slightly "gimicky" was a respectable long hole.  There was really no let-up on the course...you truly had to remain sharp and attentive all the way around if you expected to score.

I hope to get back down that way someday soon and give it another crack...hope you all get the chance to do the same.

[John Kavanaugh]

Evan,

Was the par 6 the number one handicap hole?  How did you play it as a 17.4 handicap.  Does a par 6 present an even larger gap between low and high handicaps or does it narrow the field because there is one more shot to dub and recover?

[Tom_Doak]

Evan:

Your description of drives "bounding out" into the woods or water seems at odds with your enthusiasm for the course.

[Tim Rooney]

I believe Barry trained under Jack Kidwell, however , his most  impressive course is the collaboration/Lanny Wadkins Cols. private, Pinnacle Golf Club.Did you enjoy Amish Country,since there are a greater concentration than Lancanster(Pa.)?Is the course worth the 11/2 hr trip from Cols.(Granville/Longaberger quality)?

[PThomas]

I believe Barry trained under Jack Kidwell, however , his most  impressive course is the collaboration/Lanny Wadkins Cols. private, Pinnacle Golf Club.Did you enjoy Amish Country,since there are a greater concentration than Lancanster(Pa.)?Is the course worth the 11/2 hr trip from Cols.(Granville/Longaberger quality)?

Tim - could you pls share more thoughts on Pinnacle, thanks

[Doug Sobieski]

I believe Barry trained under Jack Kidwell, however , his most  impressive course is the collaboration/Lanny Wadkins Cols. private, Pinnacle Golf Club.Did you enjoy Amish Country,since there are a greater concentration than Lancanster(Pa.)?Is the course worth the 11/2 hr trip from Cols.(Granville/Longaberger quality)?

Tim - could you pls share more thoughts on Pinnacle, thanks

If I knew how to use the search function, I'd pull up my thread on Pinnacle from last fall

[Chris_Blakely]

I have played here about two years ago.  I thought Barry Serafin did a good job routing the course on a wild site.

http://www.serafingolf.com/home.html

There are three pictures per hole on the course website:

http://www.blackdiamondgolfcourse.com/

http://www.blackdiamondgolfcourse.com/course.htm?hole=1

There are some great driving holes and a good mix of short and long holes.  It did get tight in a couple of spots, I remember the par 4 12th hole was very tight off the tee, but for the most part, I did not feel that good shots were bouncing all over the place.

There are some very good short par 4's like the uphill 6th hole and the downhill 4th (three tiered green).  The green contours were wild.

I am not sure if the par 6 yardages are correct, if I remeber correctly, there was a back tee that stretched the hole to about 700 yards.

This was one of the courses I listed that surprised me that it was not on golfweeks top ohio (public) course list along with many others in the middle to southeast section of Ohio.

There are several other courses in the area that are on equally as impressive of a site and are worth a look.  As for the 1.5 hour drive, I would say it is worth it to play this course.

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan,

Was the par 6 the number one handicap hole?  How did you play it as a 17.4 handicap.  Does a par 6 present an even larger gap between low and high handicaps or does it narrow the field because there is one more shot to dub and recover?

Actually John...it plays as the #18 handicap I just found out!

My current index is 13.6...and I made a 7 there on Sunday.  I hit a poor dirve, good second with a 5-wood (blind shot over an aiming bunker), pushed my 4-iron third left of the green, had a difficult lie in the rough and flopped poorly with my forth onto the wrong "bowl" of the green, hit my fifth shot as a putt a bit too strongly over the hog's back in the green and had a tough putt coming back for par, which I just missed and took bogey.

My personal opinion of the hole is that it probably would tend to NARROW the field due to the "dub and recover" concept you spoke of as opposed to some really stealing one or two shots from the rest of the field because of the excessive length.

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan:

Your description of drives "bounding out" into the woods or water seems at odds with your enthusiasm for the course.

Not really Tom...more of an observation than anything.  As I said in my description above, I did not really experience any of that type of "bounding" so much myself as I kept it in play pretty well...but for those who might not be hitting the ball so straight, or on the fringes of straight there will most certainlybe issues of keeping the ball in play.

It is really due to some of the severe sloping of fairways as they "lay on the land" and what movement of the ball that creates.  I had read some critiques online where people had said that the course created collection areas for drives and shots so that it did not matter if you hit a ball 190, 210 or 230 yards...all those shots ended up in the same place...I personally did not see that, but might have been tough to see with just one playing, and only two of us hitting shots.

[Evan Fleisher]

I believe Barry trained under Jack Kidwell, however , his most  impressive course is the collaboration/Lanny Wadkins Cols. private, Pinnacle Golf Club.Did you enjoy Amish Country,since there are a greater concentration than Lancanster(Pa.)?Is the course worth the 11/2 hr trip from Cols.(Granville/Longaberger quality)?

Amish country was pretty nice.  We camped at a private campground near Brinkhaven (Whip-Poor-Will Hills) that my wife's family has been going to for decades...it is right on the river and fairly rustic.

As to your other question...i have NOT been in Ohio long enough to have played much golf outside of the immediate Cleveland area, so it is hard for me to say if Black Diamond compares to Granville or Longaberger...but regardless of that I think it IS a course worth exploring due to it's unique layout and location.

[Evan Fleisher]

I have played here about two years ago.  I thought Barry Serafin did a good job routing the course on a wild site.

http://www.serafingolf.com/home.html

There are three pictures per hole on the course website:

http://www.blackdiamondgolfcourse.com/

http://www.blackdiamondgolfcourse.com/course.htm?hole=1

There are some great driving holes and a good mix of short and long holes.  It did get tight in a couple of spots, I remember the par 4 12th hole was very tight off the tee, but for the most part, I did not feel that good shots were bouncing all over the place.

There are some very good short par 4's like the uphill 6th hole and the downhill 4th (three tiered green).  The green contours were wild.

I am not sure if the par 6 yardages are correct, if I remeber correctly, there was a back tee that stretched the hole to about 700 yards.

This was one of the courses I listed that surprised me that it was not on golfweeks top ohio (public) course list along with many others in the middle to southeast section of Ohio.

There are several other courses in the area that are on equally as impressive of a site and are worth a look.  As for the 1.5 hour drive, I would say it is worth it to play this course.

Chris...that is because Black Diamond is NOT ON the Golfweek ballot!

...something that should probably be corrcted so more folks get out and see the place.

[Doug Ralston]

Evan;

Good description. We loved the course. It is thinking man's golf, and it certainly helps to have played it before or have someone along who is familiar.

Serafin have done some other good courses, among them 'Player's Club at Foxfire' in Columbus, which was surprisingly good to me from #7 hole onward.

I love the Amish Country. It is a peaceful place to put a course.

If you live in Cleveland or Columbus Black Diamond is a great choice. We did it as a daytrip from Cincy, and we thought it definitely worthy the effort.

Evan, if you like this rather uneven land for a golf course, let me suggest one to you. Consider Black Diamond to be Tot Hill, then Eagle Ridge in Yatesville Lake State Park, Kentucky is Tobacco Road. Run, don't walk, to get there! Don't walk the course either  .

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

Evan,

Was the par 6 the number one handicap hole?  How did you play it as a 17.4 handicap.  Does a par 6 present an even larger gap between low and high handicaps or does it narrow the field because there is one more shot to dub and recover?

Actually John...it plays as the #18 handicap I just found out!

My current index is 13.6...and I made a 7 there on Sunday.  I hit a poor dirve, good second with a 5-wood (blind shot over an aiming bunker), pushed my 4-iron third left of the green, had a difficult lie in the rough and flopped poorly with my forth onto the wrong "bowl" of the green, hit my fifth shot as a putt a bit too strongly over the hog's back in the green and had a tough putt coming back for par, which I just missed and took bogey.

My personal opinion of the hole is that it probably would tend to NARROW the field due to the "dub and recover" concept you spoke of as opposed to some really stealing one or two shots from the rest of the field because of the excessive length.

The 18th handicap hole...that surprises me.  Congrats on the improvement of your game, get that tag line corrected before they accuse you of sandbagging.  A decline from 17 to 13 is difficult to explain.  Have you sent a note to the airlines thanking them for breaking what must have been some ill fitting clubs?  Did you move up in technology or is it just a new found talent.  At this rate we should meet in the middle quicker than I might have planned.

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan,

Was the par 6 the number one handicap hole?  How did you play it as a 17.4 handicap.  Does a par 6 present an even larger gap between low and high handicaps or does it narrow the field because there is one more shot to dub and recover?

Actually John...it plays as the #18 handicap I just found out!

My current index is 13.6...and I made a 7 there on Sunday.  I hit a poor dirve, good second with a 5-wood (blind shot over an aiming bunker), pushed my 4-iron third left of the green, had a difficult lie in the rough and flopped poorly with my forth onto the wrong "bowl" of the green, hit my fifth shot as a putt a bit too strongly over the hog's back in the green and had a tough putt coming back for par, which I just missed and took bogey.

My personal opinion of the hole is that it probably would tend to NARROW the field due to the "dub and recover" concept you spoke of as opposed to some really stealing one or two shots from the rest of the field because of the excessive length.

The 18th handicap hole...that surprises me.  Congrats on the improvement of your game, get that tag line corrected before they accuse you of sandbagging.  A decline from 17 to 13 is difficult to explain.  Have you sent a note to the airlines thanking them for breaking what must have been some ill fitting clubs?  Did you move up in technology or is it just a new found talent.  At this rate we should meet in the middle quicker than I might have planned.

I too was surprised at the high handicap rating of the hole...but there is little "trouble" there, just length.

Thanks for the tagline update reminder...forgot I had that in there!  Good memory on the club-breaking thingy...it was just my driver that got snapped, and the Aldila NV shaft I put in has helped, but is not the reason for the drop in handicap.  I am still using the same old clubs (including driver head with a new shaft) and ball (Titleist NXT Tour) I've had/used for the past 10 years or so...just a few changes to my set-up (moved the ball position a bit), hand position on the club (stronger), and getting out of my own frickin' way (mostly!!!).  My ball contact has never been crisper and all my clubs are flying farther than ever before.  I've become pretty deadly with my PW (from about 95-110 yards) and am managing my game to that yardage on "trouble" holes keeping the bugger numbers from hurting me.  Lastly, my wedge play around the greens is also improving giving me shorter putts for that lower number.  Driving continues to be my nemesis however...  

[Ryan DeMay]

Here are the same photos from above in a more organized layout.

http://www.caddiecorner.com/diamond/caddie/

Tim,

Here is a link to your thread on Pinnacle.

http://tinyurl.com/2awt2n

[Tim Rooney]

Gentlemen, I apologize for the delay.Pinnacle is 7,400/146 slope(Cols highest).It is the Best Golf 'Piece of Land' within Cols since Muirfield Village.Rode cartpath(x2)Christmas/early spring and was stunned; however, was slightly disappointed following 1st round.The fairways(front) are generous(approve) and the greens(oversized?) though excellent turf density don't hold(new/understandable).The course appeared to play shorter than it's fairway markers(front)? Appeared (10) very good holes and (3) Great?Though I'm a New Albany CC(Nicklaus) member I joined Pinnacle/Social play accessible.  

[Chris_Blakely]

Evan,

That is surprising that Black Diamond is not on the list, interesting.  I have several others in the relative area that should be considered.

I thought the par 6 had a back tee that was not on the scorecard that stretched the hole to around 700 yards??  Do you remember encountering this??

Thanks,
Chris

[Evan Fleisher]

Evan,

That is surprising that Black Diamond is not on the list, interesting.  I have several others in the relative area that should be considered.

I thought the par 6 had a back tee that was not on the scorecard that stretched the hole to around 700 yards??  Do you remember encountering this??

Thanks,
Chris

Not that I could see, but it is possible given the hole's location.  As for the course being on the GW ballot...it soon will be...

What others might you consider?

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