Taking some of the Pine out of Valley

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

Recently I visited Pine Valley and was amazed at the design but I couldnt help but feel claustrophobic.  The trees were growing into bunkers and choking the slopes of the fwy edges and greens.

Just curious if anybody else agrees and if there will be a movement to remove some of the trees....IMHO I would love to see the tree edges trimmed back 30yds +.

Thus giving the same feel as Jupiter Hills has now after their tree removal program.  The sandy ground exposed under the pines and the sharp contrast of the fwy grass would be even more awesome.

Plus I wonder if others agree that the opening of the course may also intemidate players even more because they would begin to see the slopes of the fwy edges and other areas...ie: lost bunkers etc.

[quest]

Wonderful today, maybe even better yesterday. One just needs to see the old photos, somewhat like Cypress Point in many ways.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I felt the same way 3-4 years ago when I had the opportunity to play Pine Valley.  As I had some opportunity to wander DEEP in the woods, my caddie pointed out several features that have simply been grown over in the underbrush and forest.  I even had the chance to play out of some of these features.  

I am told that it costs quite a lot of money to maintain the unmaintained look of the bunkering.  I would like to see more of the brush removed from the waste areas.  

When the club asks me to join and serve with the greens committee (that must read like a who's who in golf) then we will get these taken care of.  

FAT CHANCE! If anyone from Pine Valley reads this, I am always open to traveling great distances to play at fine facilities.  

[SPDB]

the club has undertaken some tree removal. I know that the 14th was especially targeted, which it needed desperately. the trees on the back right were coming so close to the green, that it was nearly impossible to play a clean bunker shot out without your swing being impeded. Crump wanted a strategic course that rewarded shotmaking, but he surely never envisioned this sort of double penalty.

that being said, i think the club is going about in a very responsible and selective way, preferring to take their time and do it meticulous way, with which i agree.

[TEPaul]

The club is definitely aware of this and has done tree clearing and apparently intends to do more. I believe that they are most definitely aware of the fact that some of Crump's bunkering now is within trees and that he obviously would not have intended such a thing! And I believe they are considering correcting that fact--if not even have it on an agenda at present!

[Patrick_Mucci]

RC,

I posted something on this about a year ago.

There is an aerial photo in the big room, hanging next to the door exiting to the parking lot.  That Picture is Pine Valley before the unrestricted growth.

I've always felt that if they could use that photo as a guide and return the golf course to its appearance in that photo, great progress will have been made, for PV and all of GOLF.

[Joel_Stewart]

I don't disagree that some trees could be cleared away butttt I never felt claustrophobic at Pine Valley.  Having said that, I didn't play there this year and my home course is Olympic which has a few trees in itself.  

I've said it before on this site that PV already has about the widest fairways this side of the Atlantic.  If you are talking about the overall health of the course, air circulation, sunlight etc. then bring out the chainsaws but I'm unsure about making the course more playable?  

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

I have no problems with current playability...my point was about how would it be with less which I feel would add more to the already great golf course.  The pics I have on each hole clearly shows that there are at least 3+ bunkers a hole effected by the tree encroachment...thats an average guess.

I have to agree wit PM about the pic in the clubhouse....you dont mean the cheesy hanging carpet routing?  Just kidding the old landscape IMHO would be more powerful off the tee than the exisitng.  But then again I never got to see that....but Oakmonts clearing and Merions have been good...Merion is gonna work on opening the quarry par 3 up this fall, just rumor...but Merion looks great...then again I am a fan of being able to have views across the golf course.

[redanman]

I know that Tommy Paul will take me out for a whuppin' for the severity of this comment, but based upon my most recent visit to WFGC, their tree-thinning program of their famous trees (Even a book written about them), more than decimating them to about 30 (40 max) trees per hole would go just fine at PVGC.  Adding width is of no consequence there it is all about aesthetics, no real change will occur in playability, but strategy can be regained in some places.  More trees gone, more bunkers can be restored, Tom will agree with me on that one.

Considering what the original vistas there were at the time of construction), I think the trees thinned as much as they can get away with before mutiny sets in would do just fine.  Splendid isolation of holes might work at Shadow Creek, but I love the old pictures of The Valley as much as any old "looks" (Since this board seems to be mostly about aesthetics and the "look" lately, my 2 cents).  

(I haven't played there since January or March, so there may be even more gone now!)

[Brian Phillips]

I played there this year and I didn't feel that the trees affected my choice of club on the tee (then again I wasn't given any choice by Rocky ).  The trees do not make you feel claustrophobic on the tee.

Our flight included three architects with three architect swings (as TEPaul calls them) and we only lost two balls.  I went long on the ninth into the green (I blame Rocky) and Graeme hooked a ball into the woods on the 15th.  Jeremy spent most of his time in the waste bunkers (he only carries about 170 as he has a links swing) but said he loved it and never had to hit twice out of them.  He got out everytime..i think.

Jeremy made a very valid point that he felt that the trees did need cutting back but only from an agronomy point of view.  Like RC mentioned the trees were starting to affect the course and that is when trees need to be taken out.

Brian.