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wsmorrison

I was driving with Tom Paul this morning and we were discussing golf architecture for a change when it occurred to me that the bunkering at Merion East may be deeper than ever before but they are all in the same spot as they were in 1930.  The restoration plan did not move the bunkering down the line of play yet they are nearly all still relevant, even for better players.

Even the bunker complex at the start of the left fairway on the 2nd hole is in play into the wind or for anything other than a solid shot, especially as one is tempted to steer clear of the OB road on the right.  Tee lengthening keeps these and other bunkers around the course in play.

While some of the bunkers today may have a different function than they once did, they are still a factor.  For instance, bunkers that you couldn't drive over 80 years ago now give one pause to try and execute a shot over the bunkers or lay up with a club other than driver.  There is an example of this on the very first hole with the cross bunker that can be flown by long hitters that might be tempted by the risk/reward equation.  Such bunkers add to the decision making and are not irrelevant.  There are too many bunkers at some classic era clubs that were not designed with elasticity that have no function at all because they are no longer in play.

A great many bunkers are in play partly because of maintenance practices.  Longer, thicker rough cut with rotary mowers and narrower fairways bring bunkers into play on shots out of the rough that would not be in play as much with wider fairways.

Some holes have a longitudinal bunker or a series of bunkers that affect play because they have always covered a long stretch of a hole.  Such bunkers include both sides of the 1st fairway, the right fairway and the left greenside bunkers on the 2nd, the left greenside of 3, the left fairway on 6, right greenside on 7, the right fairway on 10, the left fairway on 11, the left fairway on 12, the right fairways on 14 and 15, and the right greensides on 16 and 17 allow some bunkers to remain in play.  The region of a single long bunker or a different bunker in a chain of bunkers may have been in play in 1930 or earlier and a different part of the bunker or different bunker in the chain may be in play today, but the complex still impact the way the course is played.

Are these factors by design?  I believe they are.  The artifact of such design features does result in a lack of need to move bunkers down the line of play.  What other classic era courses have not had their bunkers moved?  For the most part Shinnecock is still the exact same way as are a number of other Flynn designs.  My initial reaction is that it was done systematically and not randomly.  Am I reading too deeply into this?  Maybe there are other courses and designers where this is true.

In my experience, it is not as true of Macdonald and Raynor.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 07:59:11 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
... Olympic Lake  ;D
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 07:59:25 PM by Mike Benham »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Peter Pallotta

Wayne
sorry, maybe a dumb question, but I'd like make sure I'm understanding you right:

Are you exploring the possibility that the Flynn bunkers that are still relevant today (though now serving different strategic functions) have maintained their utility not by accident but by design?

If so, are you suggesting that Flynn had to some extent anticipated the longer drives of the future and had planned for them not only by leaving room to move tees back and lengthen the course, but also by situating bunkers in such a way as to enable them to serve (different) strategic functions in the event and over the years?

As I hope you know, nothing rhetorical here, but genuine questions. I also hope I haven't misunderstood you too badly, and put too many words in your mouth.

Thanks
Peter

wsmorrison

Peter,

This is gonna sound even dumber.  I'm still trying to figure out what I'm saying.  

Yes, I am leaning towards determining that Flynn and Wilson were designing for the future.  Flynn wrote as early as 1927 that courses were going to be 7500 to 8000 yards if nothing was done with reigning in the ball.  Flynn, MacKenzie and a few others knew that drives were going to be much longer in the future.  We know this influenced his designs and we know he deliberately built elasticity into his courses.  This is one method that keeps the bunkers in play and determining factors in strategy.

I am attempting to go beyond that since not all tees were lengthened at Merion, Shinnecock and other courses that do not need the bunkers to be moved down the line of play.  These bunkers, for reasons I am trying to fathom remain relevant in their static positions. Is it by accident or design?  I am leaning towards design.  The bunkers were placed, oriented and strung out to maintain strategic integrity.  

Sometimes when you are too close to a situation, you can read too much into things or miss things that are obvious to other perspectives.  I sense the bunkers as they were are amazingly relevant.  Not all of it can be distilled down to tee lengthening.  What else accounts for it?  I'm looking for answers too and not trying to be rhetorical.  You haven't misunderstood me at all...there aren't any easy answers.

Peter Pallotta

Wayne
I don't want to sidetrack this, but this is something I've been thinking about for a while that's maybe relevant:

I've often wondered how much the golfer HIMSELF brings to the table in terms of strategic features. That is, I've wondered whether it isn't true that ANY feature worthy of the name takes on a great part of its significance because the golfer GIVES it that significance.

I'm not talking, of course, about features such as fairway bunkers in the driving zone, or water hazards at the greens --they were clearly designed to 'function' in a certain way, and they do. I mean features like a large mound or hollow a hundred yards off the tee, or bunkers forty yards short of the green on a 390 yard Par 4, i.e. features that, for a decent player playing from the correct tees, SHOULDN’T have an significance...but they DO, don't they? They do to me, it seems, at least sometimes (but maybe only when I'm 'participating' in the golf course to a Behr-like degree!). I see them there, and start wondering about them, and then I start checking the wind and asking myself, for example, whether with a bad tee shot those bunkers 40 yards short of the green just might come into play, and asking myself what would I do then, etc. In short, I myself have attached a significance to them, of a kind that might prove to have very real effects.

In other words, Wayne, part of me thinks that anyone paying attention to a well designed course (like the Flynn courses you mention) might well find, and find truly, a strategic significance in any number of features that, "rationally", shouldn't have any significance at all.  BUT - the question you are raising is a different one, I think, and that is whether or not Flynn's hazards/features don't ALSO continue to function strategically because they were so cleverly designed from the outset, and with an intuition of what the future would bring.  Unfortunately, this is where I have to be like Job and put my hand on my mouth and say no more, because I know very little about Flynn or his courses.
 
I can only guess that an answer of sorts would have much to do with how much weight one puts on those factors you raised in your last post, e.g. that Flynn knew as early as 1927 that courses were going to be much longer and drives would go much further, and thus deliberately built elasticity into his courses. But on that I'm really out of my league...

Peter


wsmorrison

Peter,

I don't know if this is part of what you are getting at, but not all effective bunkers are in play.  Some bunkering is done to tie in a look or a feel or to widen perspective.  At Indian Creek CC I asked Ron Forse why some bunkers were placed well wide of the line of play; for example, 40 yards off center.  He explained that the bunkers on some of the broader holes serve to widen the field of view so that you are not focusing down the center of the fairway towards the green but taking in the expanded view.  Some may find in the broader perspective alternate routes around hazards or topography or extra room when the wind blows.  Other bunkers, such as those Gil Hanse used at French Creek tie in a look and the bunkers that are in play to the surrounds.


Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wayne:  Have not some of the courses simply moved back the tee boxes and left the fairway bunkers.  As an aside, when courses have moved bunkers, have any found it best to recreate the identical bunker or have they changed them and perhaps made them more severe?

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wayne,
An additional variable in placing bunkers - other than the distance from the tee - is their location relative to some topographical feature. What I'm thinking for example is that a bunker located on a hill or slope where the approach could either roll into it or to a more advantageous position beyond is one that would make no sense to move. How this relates to Shinnecock or Merion East, I dunno. Were the fairway bunkers on Merion East's 14th located where they are because of the distance from the tee or because they fit so well on the slope up to the green? The left fairway bunker on 2 just couldn't be put anywhere else. It's perfect for the site.

wsmorrison

Jerry,

Yes, some architects allowed for elasticity and merely moving the tee boxes back kept the fairway bunkers in play.  The distances golfers were hitting into the green therefore might be the same, but they are now approaching the greens with different clubs, and not just because the lofts no longer correlate to the number designation.  

My observation is how static fairway bunkers on holes that did not have the tees moved still remain in play.

As for fairway bunkers that were moved down the line of play, I've seen some awful examples where the tie ins look abrupt and foced, where surface drainage is overdone on all sides of the bunkers, especially on the leading edges which obscures the bunkers to a great degree.  The style of the bunkers can also be completely out of synch with the existing bunkers.  This would seem to be the norm rather than the exception but I don't know the answer.  It is a good question.

wsmorrison

That's a great point, Craig.  Bunkers into hillsides or raised mounds (best if tied harmoniously to the surrounds) can catch shots out of the rough, weak shots or those with the wrong trajectories.  You raise some good questions.

The pot bunkers in the UK with collection topography that feed balls into them from a large area remain in play, certainly much more so than is apparent by the margins of the sand.

Kyle Harris

Wayne,

I must ask, how are we defining in play? I think this is paramount to your observation and comparison between a bunker in 1927 and a bunker in 2007. Maybe a change in that definition is one of the reasons that bunkers remain in play to this day?

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Wayne:

I think you can make a good case for Lawsonia Links in this regard, and I point it out because the Langford/Moreau school is more often associated with what one might call an "engineered" look, compared to what might be described as the more naturalistic approach of a Flynn or Ross.

As Ran points out in his excellent profile, L/M chose to make Lawsonia's defenses focused on the greens and green surrounds, moreso than off the tee. That is, I've found that approach shots to greens at Lawsonia tend to be more exacting than tee shots, where L/M offered a fair amount of room on the fairways, obvious hazards to steer clear of, and lesser penalties for wayward or loosely played shots.

Still, I'd argue their use of fairway bunkering at Lawsonia  comes into play, despite the improvements in technology (length) since the course was built in the 1930s. In a few cases, tees have been moved back, and one thinks it's to keep certain fairway bunkers in play. But other fairway bunkers still serve their purpose -- L/M seemed to have built their fairway bunkers not exclusively to catch wayward shots, but to serve as visual frames for the shot, and even to give one pause (and even sow a bit of confusion) before making the shot. L/M built their fairway bunkers at Lawsonia as long and narrow, with very high lips and clean edges, often set at an angle to the fairway. They are truly artful things.

Here's a brief rundown (and the link to the GCA visual) (for those following along, the course begins at the tee just left of the clubhouse in the middle of the aerial):

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=3820

On 1, the right fairway bunker is arguably more in play today than when first built. That you can't see it from the tee makes it all the more interesting in terms of tee-shot strategy.

On 2, the gull-wing bunkers staring you in the face on the tee never really did serve as a penal element (it's more of a top-it bunker). But the tee shot is blind, and there is a certain thrill in carrying the bunkers to a wide and accomodating fairway.

On 6, the course has recently added a back tee to make the (blind) short right bunker (not seen on the aerial) come more into play, and keep the long and left (and also blind) set of bunkers in play as well.

On the short par 4 8, the fairway bunker still works as a wonderful use of visual trickery -- the hole looks like it plays straightway to the right of the bunker (but it's all rough and crud that way, blind to the golfer on the tee), so the proper tee shot appears to be a slight cut/fade over the fairway bunker right. That works, but the really smart play is well left of the bunker, to a hidden (and ample) part of the fairway that leaves a less-demanding approach to the green. The bunker really does set up the "look" of the hole, one of the really great short par 4s around.

On 9, the gull-wing bunkers are set into a rise in the fairway, and frame the approach shot. It's an easier carry, true, in today's game, and they work as more of a framing mechanism for the second shot on this par 5 for the good player. For hacks like me, I still have to worry about squeezing in my (uphill) second shot to avoid them. There is some room here for a new back tee position.

On 11, the fairway bunkers still are very much in play -- the first one, on the right, set into the side of a hill, and still a decent carry today, and then the two nicely set fairway bunkers that threaten an approach shot short left or long right.

On 13, the two short left bunkers are probably less demanding of a carry than they were 70 years ago, but the long and angled third left bunker is still in play for those wanting a shorter route to this long and demanding par 5.

On 15 and 16, both uphill-ish par 4s, the fairway bunkers still make (most) players pause a bit before deciding whether to tackle them, in part because what lies behind them remains (esp. on 16) somewhat blind.

On 17, the beautiful gull-wing fairway bunkers do frame the entire tee shot -- not a difficult carry for a good player, but they are so "in your face" on the tee shot, with huge lips, that they make the golfer think before simply taking them on. I do think there is a bit of room back of the tee here for lengthening.

On 18, a new tee has been added (I believe), presumably to keep the fairway bunker right on the tee shot and the two fairway bunkers that confront a 2nd shot on this par 5 in play.

Apologies for the length of this, but it's a very good question, and one thinks -- in studying this course -- that L/M may very well have been attentive to the future of the game, and the role that length would play, in their use of fairway bunkering. I do get the sense that at Lawsonia, L/M had a vision for fairway bunkering that was perhaps different than, say, the penal bunkering that Fownes utilized at Oakmont (to cite one example).

« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 11:01:42 AM by Phil McDade »

wsmorrison

I was using the phrase "in play" to mean that they are still strategic determinants and that balls can still get in them by all classes of players, even low handicappers.

I don't understand your point about definition.  Wouldn't this be most people's definition?  What change in definition are you referring to?

I am not referring to bunkers that hide landing areas or foreshorten distances.  Many of these are in play in the mind but not on the ground.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2007, 10:59:01 AM by Wayne Morrison »

wsmorrison

Nice post, thank you, Phil.

Kyle Harris

I was using the phrase "in play" to mean that they are still strategic determinants and that balls can still get in them by all classes of players, even low handicappers.

I don't understand your point about definition.  Wouldn't this be most people's definition?  What change in definition are you referring to?

Are the balls carrying into the bunkers or rolling in? Are they considered carry hazards or off-center hazards?

I guess I am more looking into the nature of the danger they pose. For example, a bunker at the turn of a dogleg could still be in play today as a carry hazard where before it was more in play because more and more people were near it to get the angle.

Are well-struck shots in danger of the hazard or just the mishits? A bunker at 220 yards out may be in play when you're a bit off, and not even a problem when you're "on" for that day. Whereas, 80 years ago, it was a concern regardless because of the nature of conditioning, equipment and play style.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
... Olympic Lake  ;D

Mike, you jest.

Most of the bunkers have been changed in 53 and 65 before the US Open by Jones.  He filled in many of the really great bunkers, #4, #9, #14, #17, #18 and added numerous others like the lone fairway bunker on #6.

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