Waffle House-like Golf Course Architects

[Tommy_Naccarato]

What is it about Waffle House?

You could go to each and every one of them ever built and get the same meal every time, yet the quality isn't all that bad, say like MacDonald's which you can do the same, but the quality just sucks. Even the building is the same throughout, even upto the  way the parking lot is laid out.

At the Waffle House there's some delicious grits on the menu, the coffee's great, the bacon real nice and crispy; the eggs, done to perfection with just enough lard to assure yourself you'll need to make a cardiologist appointment next week, and the price is pretty damn good too.

Even the service at the Waffle House is pretty good. They are attentive to your needs. The water glass is always full and you never have to ask for coffee. It's just part of the experience.

So what is an example of some good Waffle House-like Golf architecture, where the architect's body of work isn't at the point of being Chez Panisse or French Laundry but is good enough to get it done?

[JESII]

Tommy,


I am not traveled enough to state authoritatively...about GCA, not Waffle Houses (been to 50+, can I add that to the frequently played greats list?)...but I always read your posts as strongly preferring the special "Chez Panisse" types. Wouldn't the mass production shops suit your requests on this front?

[Mike_Young]

Tommy,
The Alabama Trail may fit your description......
But you won't find those waitresses....

[Bob_Huntley]

Tommy,

You ask a good question.

Most of the commments from the inmates of the tree house seem to casitigate those poor unfortunates who work on a limited budget and produce something less than another Bandon Dunes. Yet what they do produce gives great pleasure to a mass of golfers with limited budgets who love their golf as much as the members of the High and Mighty Golf Course of the Elysian Fields.

Your Waffle House meal costs ten, twenty, thirty times less than the French Laundry or Le Grenouille yet it still satisfies its clientelle.

To each his own.

Bob

Bob

[Dale_McCallon]

I would think there are several of them--like Bill said probably a regional thing.  I've played a few courses by Dennis Griffiths here in the south, and while not world class they have been affordable and have some really good holes on it.

Maybe on a more national level, what about Mike Hurdzan.  I know he has had a few high-level jobs, but he has a bunch of courses in Ohio and Ky that are way below the radar that don't wow you, but don't make you feel like you wasted the afternoon either.

Mr Huntley couldn't have put it any better.  I know many people who play the game on spotty greens, divot covered fairways, and rock filled bunkers.  But those people have as much, if not more passion for the game as many members of the country's best.

[Jeff Doerr]

Tommy,

Isn't it really what the charge is to the architect? Forrest's charge at at Olivas was to make a really good "Waffle House" out of a situation gone tragic. All reports in say he did a great job.

Here in the PNW, Bunny Mason has made a number of courses that are decent to play and serve their purpose, but really will never be held up as great examples - or draw someone from far away to play it. The Jacobsen/Hardy courses tend to be "WH" on a lot of holes, very good on a few holes, "What were they thinking?" on about one hole per course. I'm hoping Brasada breaks this trend.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Mike,
How ya'll doin?

Jeff Doerr,
I've always said this about my experiences in the Great PacNorWest: A golf architect named Bunny?

Of course I know your probably really focusing on Persimmon which for some reason I never took the time and effort to seek out in my visits up there, mostly because my time up there has become somewhat more scarce. But after driving through Tualatin, Tigard and then seeing the Beaverton exit, I did in fact realize how much I love my old summer home. Shame on my for not giving Bunny a better chance, or at least any chance at all.

However, count me as one that is somewhat disappointed with what John Whatshisname did to Progress Downs. I think it's a travesty actually.

Just off of the top of my head, the Waffle House courses I've played there: (This is not a full list of courses I've played in the Portland area, only Waffle House-like courses that get it done)

Progress Downs (18 holes)
Killarney West (9 holes)
King City (9 holes)
Summerfield (9 holes)
The old NLE Riverview in Sherwood (9 holes)
Merriweather (36 Holes)
Sandelee (as Waffle House as you can get) (18 holes)
Charbonneau (sp) (27 holes)
Orenco Woods (9 holes) (I love this place, in fact, there are somethings about this place I think bare some amount of research--just in case)(More about that later or off-line)
Claremont (9 holes) (Used the guy's bathroom that designed the place!)

Oh so many more, but these come to mind at the moment.

Sir Robert of Huntley,
Yes there is plenty of room and it's probably the perfect place for a joe like me!

[Jesse Jones]

Macan comes to mind. Up here in the Great Northwest he has put together solid courses like Shaughnessy in B.C and some really nice munis such as Lake Spanaway in Washington.
Fircrest is a real treat and I also think Columbia-Edgewater isn't bad either.
I haven't been disappointed with any of his work.

[Jeff Doerr]

Tommy,

One of my fav memories is playing Killarney with 93 year old Ozzie Osmundsen. He played the forward tees, walked and pulled a cart. We only played nine and he shot 44! He passed a number of years ago, but into his early 90s he played at least monthly year round here in rainy Oregon.

Zoller's work at Redtail is OK, some of the holes on the back are just plain not fun...

Mountain View in Boring is a true Waffle House classic. A fun play and good customer service.

The super at Glendoveer has done a nice job in changes there. George Walker has made some good changes and is a strong player - getting into the match play for the US Am at Winged Foot I think.

[Michael Dugger]

Uh oh, Tommy, you are talking about courses in my back yard.

There are a few holes at Skankmania, Persimmon and BB Ranch Glaze which are good....hell, even great.

But a lot of dogs too.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Portland has some really great Waffle House classics. Surprising since Waffle House has never chosen to expand North, but actually thinking about it would be almost sacrilege.

I came across Killarney West one day while on the road back from a weekend at the Flying M Ranch near Yamhill. (Talk about great golf land near there!)

I just saw this sign with a shamrock on it that said Killarney West Golf. Well it was just one of those things where you just felt selfish and said, lets give it a look, and it was like going back into the 20' or 30's, the way the place was all situated. The clubhouse was like this old shack-like barn house, and of course out came the clubs because I was instantly smitten. Just a blast to play too.

Pure Waffle House stuff there.

[Jeff Doerr]

Yes, something near the Flying M would be very cool. Forest Hills does not really qualify as Waffle House, but is a great OLD Track. I think it is one of the oldest in the west.

My kids think I am strange because I see golf holes as I drive through the countryside...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jeff,
That isn't strange, that just normal.

Forest Hills is Bily Bell Sr. and Jr., around 1951. It remains one of the most peaceful places I have ever played the Sport. Well that was before I ever played Friar's Head!

Still, I have a vision of the crop harvesters out there gently reaping the land, just absolutely one of the best least known places to play. While I did think of Forest Hills and Billy Bell Jr. is certainly a Waffle House menu item himself (considering his collection of courses) BB Sr. nulls and voids any Waffle House connection.

[Jeff Doerr]

Agreed!

I used to play FH on Monday mornings a lot. I'd tee off at first light and pay at the turn. Almost always as a solo and I'd play in about 2 hours for 18. Usually I'd be showered and in the office by 9AM.

Jr. just never quite got what SR. understood.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

The O.B. Sports courses are much like waffle house, Trophy Lake and Washington National in Washington, Langdon Farms in Oregon, Cimmaron in Palm Springs and others are all pleasant to play and boast some great visual tricks that really don't have much substance.  Much like the big haired waffle house (Hoooters?) waitress, ok to look at but not really satisfying.

And Jesse speaking of V. Macan, Lake Spanaway was completed in 1967 and Macan died in 1964.  I think it was Jack Reimer of Abbotsford Canada (Cascade at Gold Mountain, Oakbrook, Twin Lakes, and Fairwood) who completed the project.

[Pete_Pittock]

Tommy,
Portland has the Original Pancake House on Barbur Blvd. As God is my witness, last night I had a dream and was introduced to a guy on the first tee. I asked him what he did and he said he started the original Waffle House. I have spent too many hours here and am tiring of Nutrisystem.

[Mike_Young]

Tommy,
Portland has the Original Pancake House on Barbur Blvd. As God is my witness, last night I had a dream and was introduced to a guy on the first tee. I asked him what he did and he said he started the original Waffle House. I have spent too many hours here and am tiring of Nutrisystem.

Pete,
One of the two guys that started Waffle House was inducted into the Ga Golf Hall of Fame this January.......

[paul cowley]

....well personally I prefer Huddle House....for my food and my architecture......and my hashbrowns scattered and chunked and on the crispy side, along with tomato, ham, cheese, green pepper and jalapenos. Sprinkled of course with Louisiana or Crystal hot sauce [but they usually have Texas Pete which is OK, as long as its not Tabasco....which I'll use if I have to, but for the life of me I don't understand its popularity. I mean its OK to cook with but it has no depth of flavor as a condiment...you know what I mean?]......their waitresses can be a little scrawny it seems to me the farther and farther you get out in the country...

Sorry Tommy  .

[G Jones]

Last time I went to waffle house I ordered a burger. They asked if i wanted the combo, so I asked what it consisted of. They said, "2 burgers".

Long live the house.

Forget the architecture... how about a golf course with a Waffle House for a clubhouse?  

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm with Paul C. Huddle House is Southern; WH has gone Yankee.

On the other hand, Paul is clearly wimpy for not going in for Tabasco.  You have to build up a tolerance to get down to the flavor, Paul! (Guess you won't be having their habanero flavor any time soon...)

G Jones -- uh, maybe they haven't gone completely Yankee; that's a "Stroke Belt" special.

After the earlier WH thread, I came across an article about the founders.  Apparently one guy bought the original, then got a buddy of his to "improve" it.  The buddy was the operations genius and the guy who bought it just plays golf all the time.

A WH clubhouse would be awesome.

[Mike Hendren]

WH has gone Yankee.

Mark, I will fight you with the weapon of your choice and the location of your choosing.  Be advised,  I will be jacked up on Mountain Dew and on you like a spider-monkey, scissor-kicking you in the back of the hay-yed.

Mike

[Jim Bearden]

I love waffle house and tabasco goes on everything.

[Mike_Cirba]

...Sprinkled of course with Louisiana or Crystal hot sauce [but they usually have Texas Pete which is OK, as long as its not Tabasco....which I'll use if I have to, but for the life of me I don't understand its popularity. I mean its OK to cook with but it has no depth of flavor as a condiment...you know what I mean?]......

Paul,

Yes, I definitely know what you mean.   Tabasco sauce is the Miller lite of hot sauces...horrendous, watered-down, and only enjoyable to a girlie-man who might as well pour some V-8 juice on his eggs.   Perhaps the near-beer flavor of Coors Light is a better analogy.  

If you can get it, I'd recommend some Sriracha sauce...the one with the rooster on it (also known in some circles as "Cock Sauce").   It not only has a kick, but it very definitely enhances the natural taste of whatever you add it to.  Unfortunately, I don't think it's on the table at either the Waffle House or Huddle House.

Would it be bad form for a Yankee to bring his own sauce down to Atlanta in July?  

[cary lichtenstein]

Last time I went to waffle house I ordered a burger. They asked if i wanted the combo, so I asked what it consisted of. They said, "2 burgers".

Long live the house.

Forget the architecture... how about a golf course with a Waffle House for a clubhouse?  

There is a golf course with a Starbucks for the halfway house. Anyone care to guess the name of the course?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Not to let the topic get off-topic, lets hear some examples of good Waffle House Golf Course Architecture.

Here's another:

El Prado's Chino Creek and Butterfield Stage courses.

Designed by David Rainville, Chino Creek strides into some beautiful and natural golfing ground, albeit right next to some--unsightly to some--cow pastures. Still in Southern California, it's a great place to escape the rat race. Butterfield Stage also gets into some pastural land, but the architecture isn't all that bad. Conditions aren't always perfect but it's good enough to put a smile on your face for the cost.

Both courses are more then walkable too.