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D_Malley

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merion west pics
« on: May 16, 2007, 11:44:42 AM »
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D_Malley

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 09:30:35 PM »
don't get me wrong, i love this course and practically grew up on it.  broke 80 for the first time there (76) only because i played the holes out of sequence.  started on 12.  

but what does everyone think of the those bunkers that are set into the mounds?  does this look un-natural?  has flynn used this style elsewhere?
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Trey Kemp

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2007, 02:05:55 PM »
Nice pictures!
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SPDB

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 02:23:38 PM »
Racetrack -
What bunkers are you talking about at the West?
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Dan Herrmann

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 03:51:33 PM »
I don't think those are original Flynn.

MW deserves more buzz than it sometimes gets...  From Gil Hanse's 2000 Feature Interview on this very site:

"My Top 5 'aside from Pine Valley and Merion' are

1. Rolling Green - great set of greens and par 3 holes.

2. Gulph Mills - loads of character from Mr. Ross and Mr. Maxwell

3. Manufacturers - cut down some trees and this would go up.

4. Lancaster - great setting with more great greens from Mr. Flynn.

5. Merion West - Bill Kittleman says that there is more architecture in this course than on the East. "
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 03:52:11 PM by Dan Herrmann »
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Brian Jones

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 08:07:08 PM »
Where are the baskets on the flags?
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Brian Jones

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 08:07:52 PM »
I guess I should have asked "where are the baskets on the flagsticks?"
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David_Elvins

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 09:13:21 PM »
Brian.

On the east course :)
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David_Elvins

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 09:16:23 PM »
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on May 18, 2007, 03:51:33 PM
I don't think those are original Flynn.
From looking at pictures of the course and the architectural timeline presented in other threads, I would say the West course is more Colt than Flynn.
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Brian Jones

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 09:50:08 PM »
If you look at the pictures labeled East Course there are no baskets.  Are these really pictures of the West?
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James Bennett

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 11:25:06 PM »
Brian

there are pictures of baskets on the flags on the pins on the West.

there are baskets on the pins on the East.

you can buy a West flag (complete with basket picture) at the pro-shop on the East, but you can't buy a basket.

Here are pictures of the bunkers cut into/onto the mound on the left of Merion West #1 (or is it #2?) green.



James B
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 11:51:14 PM by James Bennett »
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wsmorrison

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2007, 08:53:27 AM »
Baskets used to be used on the West Course a looong time ago.  
There are a lot of access points to get on the course so my guess is they were being nabbed at a pretty good rate more than likely by  Villanova U knuckleheads.

James,

That is the first green.

Flynn's daughter and David Gordon (son of William) independently related that they believed the West Course was designed by Flynn.  My guess is that Flynn oversaw the construction of the West (after Fred Pickering was fired) and had a lot to do with the course details and may have collaborated with Wilson on the general design concepts.  Hugh Wilson and his committee oversaw the project, as they did with Pickering building the East.
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David_Elvins

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2007, 09:05:39 AM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on May 19, 2007, 08:53:27 AM
Flynn's daughter and David Gordon (son of William) independently related that they believed the West Course was designed by Flynn.  My guess is that Flynn oversaw the construction of the West (after Fred Pickering was fired) and had a lot to do with the course details and may have collaborated with Wilson on the general design concepts.  Hugh Wilson and his committee oversaw the project, as they did with Pickering building the East.

Wayne,

I noticed that Colt's visits were during the time of the construction of the West course.  Is there any evidence of his involvement in the design?
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D_Malley

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2007, 09:57:29 AM »
the picture above of the bunkers to the left of #1 green are specifically what i was referring to.  there are several other holes where you see a bunker set into or on top of a mound like this.
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D_Malley

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2007, 09:58:29 AM »
by the way that back left hole location on #1 is a good one.
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wsmorrison

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2007, 10:17:55 AM »
I have not seen Colt's name mentioned in connection with Merion's courses.  There has been speculation in the past that the West Course was designed by Macdonald and Raynor.  All of these claims are not supported by any archival evidence.  We think the little evidence that does exist (written and verbal) indicates the club committee and Flynn are responsible for the West.  Of course Colt's work in the UK and that of Park, Jr. and others was a strong influence on Hugh Wilson.
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wsmorrison

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2007, 10:23:55 AM »
Brian,

That is the East Course.  It is likely that the photos were taken early in the morning.  Near dusk, the baskets are removed and flags put in to replace the baskets.  I would think that the baskets were put in sometime after the photos were taken.  In the off-season, between December and March the baskets are not used.
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David_Elvins

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2007, 10:39:31 AM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on May 19, 2007, 10:17:55 AM
I have not seen Colt's name mentioned in connection with Merion's courses.  ...Of course Colt's work in the UK and that of Park, Jr. and others was a strong influence on Hugh Wilson.
Thanks Wayne.
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Mike_Cirba

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2007, 12:59:39 PM »
Merion West is a gem and a total blast.

I'm not sure if it has more architecture than the East Course, but it certainly has more unusual features and holes overall, and uses the significant changes in elevation in a more dramatic and challenging way than anything on the East.   Some of the straight downhill and ruggedly uphill holes take quite a bit of local knowledge to navigate correctly.  

The West also has one of the most varied and wonderful sets of par 3s of any course I'm familiar with.
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Brian Jones

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 02:48:28 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up Wayne.  I thought I was going crazy.  I had a good friend who played 4 years on the golf team at Villanova and although they praticed at Aronimink, he never played Merion.  Does anyone know if any local Philly college teams practice at Merion?  If any do, they are probably the ones with the baskets in their dorms :)
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mike_malone

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 02:59:07 PM »
 Brian,

  Haverford College is across the street from the East course. But, as a good Quaker college I'm sure you wouldn't find any red wicker baskets in those dorm rooms ::)
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wsmorrison

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 03:05:22 PM »
"  Haverford College is across the street from the East course. But, as a good Quaker college I'm sure you wouldn't find any red wicker baskets in those dorm rooms"

Nor the orange ones, Mike.  Anyone care to guess why the baskets are the exact colors they are?

Some of the local prep schools practice and play on the West Course.  

For a time, the University of Pennsylvania golf team practiced and played on the East Course.  However, it hasn't been their home course in many decades.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 03:05:52 PM by Wayne Morrison »
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mike_malone

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2007, 03:07:04 PM »
 Excuse my color blindedness.
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wsmorrison

Re:merion west pics
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2007, 03:50:47 PM »
Mike,

The front nine are dark red.  The back nine are orange.  You are not color blind, just not very observant  ;)

Now, why are they those particular colors?
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mike_malone

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Re:merion west pics
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2007, 03:54:29 PM »
 I'm usually bored stiff by the time I get to the back nine.
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