slow play

[Evan_Smith]

This topic is exactly the reason for the need of a golf license.  Nothing to do with ability of course, but to learn the etiquette of the game and how to play quickly.  I agree that slow play doesn't always happen because of guys (it's always guys) playing the wrong tees.  However at certain courses this is the reason because of long carries or tighter tee shots from the back tees.

Most of you have hit the nail on the head as to the reason for slow play, but how many of you have yelled at your buddies when you see them being slow on the course.  We're too worried to hurt our friends feelings in North America.  All of the good marshalling stories I hear come out of the UK.  From what I can tell, they have no problem yelling at the golfers.  Usually using  very creative cursing.  

Another problem is at the high end public courses where the players feel that they've paid a lot of money, so they can do what they please.  I'm sure the pro doesn't want to alienate anybody either so as to promote repeat play.  What they don't understand are the people that will never come back because they didn't do anything about the slow play.

I too have played way too many slow rounds to even want to think about them.  The majority of them were NCAA events.  Enough said.

Shivas's cheating line I believe also causes play to slow down.

[Gary Slatter]

a few major factors causing slow play right now:
"stay on the cart path" rules
tees TOO FAR FORWARD cause delays
front pin placements
poorer quality of golfers playing courses
alcohol sold on courses instead of in XIXthhole only
mixed groups not playing from tees in proper order
no respect for the game (actually no knowledge of the game)
incorrect starting procedures, no starter "briefing", too many players on the course at one time
useless rangers
really bad examples on TV
really bad examples by tournament associations allowing slow play right from the first group
courses not knowing how to set up shotgun events add an hour to the playing time (like putting more groups on par 5 holes instead of the following hole)
too many clubs in the bag
a half-assed knowledge of the rules and etiquette vs ready golf
balls are too expensive to lose
practice swings
etc.

Our courses average well under 4 hours day in day out, 10 minute tee times.  I played in the last group of the Danish Open, it took almost six hours to play 36 holes! 3 players per group.

[Daryl David]

Not to jack the thread, but has anyone been told by a pro or ranger that you play too fast?  Happened to my regular group when I lived in Toronto.  We were told that it was becoming difficult to regulate the pace of the play because our group was playing too fast for the field. We were told that we needed to be first group off from then on if we wanted to continue to play in the Saturday choose ups.

I couldn't decide whether to be insulted or proud.

[Gary Slatter]

Not to jack the thread, but has anyone been told by a pro or ranger that you play too fast?  Happened to my regular group when I lived in Toronto.  We were told that it was becoming difficult to regulate the pace of the play because our group was playing too fast for the field. We were told that we needed to be first group off from then on if we wanted to continue to play in the Saturday choose ups.

I couldn't decide whether to be insulted or proud.

This can happen with double tee starts, or slow maintenance workers (not their fault usually). Isn't first off the best?

[Daryl David]

Being first out is great except for finishing in your usual 3 hours and then waiting all morning for the the other groups to get in and settle bets.  

It is funny how players of similar speeds seem to flock together.  I see groups that play together regularly that are painfully slow, but don't seem to mind.  If you asked them how they stand it, they look at you like you are from Mars and then say that they would not enjoy the game if they had to play fast.  To each his own I guess.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,
Please do me a favor.  When you play at The Belfry, (I'm guessing you are playing the Brabazon Course) make it a point to note the time your group's first tee shot is in the air and the time you put the flag in on eighteen.  And if you can make a few notes regarding places you waited out on the course.  Let us know what you found out and we can do a bit of long range analysis on another thread.

i will do bill... i'm actually playing both the brabazon and the pga, on separate days thankfully...

...i guess you guys in the US generally have it worse than us in the UK and Ireland... but there's no doubt that the resort courses like the belfry which are based more on a US model are the slowest to play in general...

...aside from the architectural reasons of short par 4's, tight fairways, lost ball rough, it appears to me that lack of etiquette (or golfing cop-on) and carts are the main cause... i do not care for carts... i've said it on here quite a few times... on the stay on cart path courses especially, you end up walking twice as far, inevitably with three loose clubs in your hand... but the main reason is - you don't ever appreciate the course and visualise your shot properly...

...anyway - slow play - i don't like it...

[Rich Goodale]

Searching for lost balls is my bane.  There is nothing more irritating than getting to a tee and seeing a bunch of clueless and inconsiderate individuals investigating every gorse bush and tuft of grass on a wide area.

If you are playing a friendly game, walk towards where your ball seems to have gone, look for no more than a minute, and then drop a ball whilst conceding the hole.  Your playing partners whould have a perfunctory/polite look too, but that's all.

If you are playing a formal competition, hit as many provisionals as is necessary, but do NOT oversearch for the original ball, unless you have a really good score going (or, in match play, you are still in the hole).  In those cases, wave the group behind you through at the earliest opportunity.

[Tom Birkert]

Longest round I’ve ever had will be at Pebble Beach in about a month. But I know this in advance and I hope the scenery will distract me enough not to care too much.

I hate slow play. It makes me frustrated and impacts negatively on my game. I guess I’m biased because I play at a course where there are no tee times and pace of play is enforced by the caddiemaster and Members themselves – if you’re slow then you are certainly made aware of it!

That said, I don’t feel like I ever rush round the course, and I couldn’t tell you the last time I played a fourball that lasted over 4 hours (including a stop at the Halfway Hut).

As for what causes slow play, well there are a multitude of reasons, including but not limited to:

Courses sending off groups too close together
Golfers not knowing enough Etiquette to maintain pace of play
Golf carts being forced to stay on paths
Long distances between greens and tees
Golfers playing courses / tees not suited to their ability
Golf carts (in general)
Cart girls

I really don’t enjoy golfing at resort courses in the US / Southern Europe. Rounds take forever, you’re stuck in a cart and the course is generally full of hackers. I firmly believe golf carts slow down the pace of play and take away a huge amount of enjoyment from the game.

That said, I have played cart golf at a private facility in Florida with a friend and we were round in 90 minutes. The course was empty and it was very pleasant.

By the way, cross referencing this to another thread I have been reading with interest, I use a line on my ball to putt with, and it certainly doesn’t cause me to back up the course or play 5 hour rounds!

[Mark Pearce]

There are three basic kinds of slow play, each with its own causes and cures:

1.  tournament slow play.

2.  Publinx afternoon slow play.

3.  early morning/weekend serious golfer slow play.

#1 causes:  Tournament slow play is the result of tour worship, nothing more:  pre shot routines, cheater lines, pin sheets, yardage books, rules adherence, putting everything out.  These are the culprits.  The obvious cure here is a policy and stroke penalties.

#2 causes:  Publinx afternoon slow play has so many causes they can't all be listed, but they can only be solved by strict rangering, better spaced tee times and maintenance practices that eliminate lost balls.

#3 causes:  The one that bugs the hell out of me is early morning/weekend serious golfer slow play:  this is solely a function of pre-shot routines.  In all my years playing this game, the only thing that I have ever seen cause a halfway decent, serious players who can golf his ball even a little and knows the ettiquite of the game to be slow is a glacial pre-shot routine.

Nonsense.  The pre-shot routine isn't in the top three causes of #3.  

The first is the now almost universal failure to play ready golf (this is a cause of #1 as well).  Players wait until it is their turn to play before even thinking about the shot they have.  

Second is the absurd amount of time someserious golfers take trying to read a putt (compared to this any issue with the cheater line is trivial in terms of time wasted).  

Third is the time wasted looking for balls in the wrong place because no-one in the group bothered to watch where an errant shot was going closely enough.  Anyone playing ready golf won't slow play down appreciably with a pre-shot routine, so long as that routine is sensibly brief.

[Tom Roewer]

I've blocked them all out.  They were all tournament rounds loaded with the worst class of offenders there are or ever has been - Division I college golfers.  

Shivas is spot on here.  The coaches harp on never playing until well past ready, and of course these are the same players who will fill the professional tour ranks where they don't get much faster.

[Ally Mcintosh]

and carts lads, carts...

in fairness to shivas, i guess a pre-shot routine includes reading putts...

...the interesting one there though mark is the looking for lost balls in the wrong place... there is a definite skill to watching where a ball enters the hazard - usually about concentration... and you either have it or you haven't... i tend to find members club golfers of a certain age on british links courses are the ones who are best at this... i'll readily admit that i am not...

...anyway, good point...

[Kalen Braley]

I hate slow play just as much as the next person.

As someone who usually shots in the 80s, I occasionally will hit in the gunch.  I don't see why if the rules of golf afford me to take 5 minutes to look for my ball why I should feel bad about doing so.

Obviously if I hit it in the deep thick stuff or gorse bushes then its not necessary to spend more than even 30 seconds looking.  But if its ankle high rough and we saw where it went, then why not look if its just on 1 hole during the round??

[Greg Murphy]

When it comes to architecture and maintenance as contributors to slow play . . . driveable par 4's . . . play like excessively long par 3's (accommodating one playing group only).  Also, unlike par 3's they take a much longer time to play, therefore backing up play.  The complication of having a blind green makes it even worse.  When does the next group even know when to play away?

Bill,

Any advice for managing the really short par 4, besides eliminating it—it may be my favourite type of hole. Is there any evidence for or against the merits of waving up the following group before putting out? I hate the practice, but if it's been demonstrated as effective in speeding up play I guess I'd have to reluctantly accept it.

While we're at it, all things being equal, do 10 minute tee times, compared to 8 or 9, improve overall pace of play?

Greg

[Jesse Jones]

Bottom line here guys.
We can type about this subject until our fingers bleed.  But until there's real enforcement, for the pro, amatuer and recreational player nothing will change.  
It's a very sad state of affairs for our game in the states.
The question is,who's going to be the bad guy first?
Who's going to tell the repeatedly reminded slow foursome who just paid 800 bucks for a CCFAD you gotta go?
Who's going to penalize Sean O'Hair during the Players?
If you think the controversy about the two Phoenix Suns who left the bench is bad, wait until the tour taps TW in the final round of a Major.
So who's going to step up?
And what price is there to pay?

[David Wigler]

Ally,

I answer this with a caveat.  The slowest round I have ever played is just over 7:30 in the Guntch tournament at Polo Fields.  It is their closing event.  They play it from beyond the tips and put many of the pins in illegal positions.  The tournament is a 3 person scramble.  Shooter and I won it the last time I played and even with the victory, I said that I would never play in it again.  I lack the attention span for eight hour golf.  To give an idea at how hard it is, our team obviously had a professional, 5 handicap and 10 handicap who routinely hits drives 280+.  The course is only 6800 from the tips and our two day total to win was -6.

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