Tot Hill Farm. Recommended?

[Mike Hendren]

Headed to Greensboro on a day trip.  Time for one round.  Top 3 reasons to play Tot Hill Farm, please.

Thanks.

[Dan_Callahan]

1. Opening tee shot is very cool (hint: stay left)

2. Maybe the nicest staff on earth

3. Some very interesting shots into greens that may, upon reflection, cause you to wish you had put your tee shot in a different place.

This isn't my favorite Strantz course. It feels shoehorned in spots. I was ready to love it after the first few holes, then equivocated, than started to really like it again when I played it the second time. Interestingly, the holes that I thought really fell short—9, 16, 17, 18—I liked quite a bit the second time around. The holes I thought were quite good the first time around—not sure of the numbers, but the ones around the little pond—I liked less the second time through.

Even if you end up not liking it, it's worth a look to experience some unique and pretty aggressive design ideas.

[cary lichtenstein]

While not in the same class as Tobacco Road, you should really play it. You will see and experience things you just haven't seen before.

I will play it agaiin next time I am in the area. The last couple of holes kind of fall apart making me think he did not finish the course.

[Evan_Smith]

I hated this course with a passion.  There were some interesting holes, but then all around the green would be giant rock outcroppings.  I'm talking a couple of feet off the green.  I think you could probably make a decent 9 holes out of the course, but I wouldn't waste your money on it.

If you want to play a great course, try Oak Hollow in High Point.  It's one of Dye's earliest courses and is way more playable than the crappy Tot Hill Farm.  It's also going to cost quite a bit less.  The Cardinal in Greensboro (very near the airport) is another of Dye's early work and is also great.  It's private, but I'm sure a friendly note to the pro could get you on.

My last recommendation is Reynolds Park in Winston Salem.  It's easy to get to from the highway and is another really great design.  May be one of the great deals in NC, my Dad and I paid $18 or $20 to play it (winter) and loved every minute of it.  The temp was at freezing and the wind was blowing, but we still had smiles on our faces because of the really interesting architecture.  It's an Ellis Maples/ Perry Maxwell design and I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. Check out the website.
http://www.golfholes.com/nc/reynolds-park.htm

I would have to call you crazy for making the drive to Tot Hill, when you have these 3 great courses in the area.  Bryan Park is supposed to be awesome as well, but I've never played it.

[Dan Boerger]

I've played this course once and I would recommend it. It's quirky (perhaps to a fault to some) and I would be surprised if it didn't leave a smile on your face. Think of it like a milkshake or a flavored cigar ... not something you would have regularly, but it's a treat when you do.

I did like Tobacco Road better and would recommend that as the better of the Strantz designs.

[Jay Flemma]

1.  It's different
2.  It has the same laid back charm in terms of staff and Pinehurst area denizens so you'll have a great time
3. Its cheap!

4.  If you wanna play EVERY course Mike designed, you have to see it.
5.  There are some outstanding holes here.

[Tim Gavrich]

If you've played Tobacco Road, you'll find Tot Hill Farm a neat sibling.  Very quirky, but a lot of fun, I think.

[Kris Spence]

Michael,

Tot Hill may not be the best golf course in the world but it is an incredible example of what brilliant skill, creativity and imagination can do with a horrible site, it is definitely worth seeing.  

[David Miller]

I would absolutely recommend it.  It's a unique and challenging layout at a bargain price (about $40 bucks).  I wouldn't want to play it every day, but it's a lot fun from time to time.  You can get a decent feel for the course from the website: http://www.golfthriller.com/.

[A.G._Crockett]

I'll add to the thumbs up group, and Kris Spence's take is perfect.  Take the plunge and see Tot Hill; there are lots of other choices, of course, but TH is something unique.

[Doug Bolls]

After playing Tobacco Road and Royal New Kent, I went out of my way to play Tot Hill Farms while visiting Raleigh.  If you enjoy the way Mike Stranz created golf courses, you will like Tot Hill - I remember 12-14 holes where I got on the tee and said to myself "Well, take a look at this - what have we here?"
A thoughtful surprise on most every hole.
I'll play it again.
Doug

[Michael Plunkett]

Played it on a visit to Pinehurst . It is the only course I truely remembered after the trip. Lots of rocks, no make that boulders.  Lots of fun.  I hit a hard fade on the first tee and the ball winded up in the middle of the fairway. Got to love it.

[Evan_Smith]

Now I know that everyone has their own likes/dislikes but can all of you that are recommending Michael to play this course honestly say it is better than the 4 courses I recommended.  Tot Hill IS an interesting course, but does that mean it's a good golf course?  I like Tobacco Road, but there are just too many stupid design ideas on this course(THF) to make it enjoyable.  If you want him to see the course, he can do that by looking at photos of the holes.  I'm not sure of Michael's golfing ability, but I will guarantee that if he's having a day that he's a bit offline with his shots he will wish he never played the course.  Can any of you dispute this.  Think of all the holes where if you miss a shot by few feet, you're going to bounce off huge rocks and who knows where it's going to go.  I just don't think it's a good golf course.  It is an interesting layout-something completely different (any wonder why nobody else has built a similar course???) but it's not worth his time or money when there are better, cheaper and closer courses.  That's my opinion.  Michael, I would love to hear what you actually end up doing, and if you play Tot Hill, what you thought about it.

[A.G._Crockett]

Now I know that everyone has their own likes/dislikes but can all of you that are recommending Michael to play this course honestly say it is better than the 4 courses I recommended.  Tot Hill IS an interesting course, but does that mean it's a good golf course?  I like Tobacco Road, but there are just too many stupid design ideas on this course(THF) to make it enjoyable.  If you want him to see the course, he can do that by looking at photos of the holes.  I'm not sure of Michael's golfing ability, but I will guarantee that if he's having a day that he's a bit offline with his shots he will wish he never played the course.  Can any of you dispute this.  Think of all the holes where if you miss a shot by few feet, you're going to bounce off huge rocks and who knows where it's going to go.  I just don't think it's a good golf course.  It is an interesting layout-something completely different (any wonder why nobody else has built a similar course???) but it's not worth his time or money when there are better, cheaper and closer courses.  That's my opinion.  Michael, I would love to hear what you actually end up doing, and if you play Tot Hill, what you thought about it.

I would dispute the "offline/wish he had never played" contention, Evan.  

My experience with TH is exactly like both TR and True Blue, in that the driving areas are much, much more forgiving than they appear, which is why the course ratings are relatively low.  I think that if a player is WAAAY offline, the recovery possibilities become very, very limited, which is why the slope ratings are relatively high.

TH has a very high quirk factor, and it manifests in some really difficult (if not impossible) recovery shots.  For a golfer as good as you, that is often a big, big negative.  But the landing zones at TH are generous and the greens are large, though very demanding.

As to comparing it to the other courses, its apples and oranges.  But I don't think that any of the others you mentioned are compelling and significant in the way that THF is.

[Andy Hughes]

Evan, no disrespect meant, but you will learn that lots of guys here would gladly drive further or pay a little more to play a course that is 'interesting', 'completely different', 'an interesting layout' rather than merely play a better course    Throw into the mix that it is a Strantz and, well, Mr Hendren's going to Tot Hill Farm.

PS I have never played THF, though I've had the great pleasure to play 5 other courses Mr Strantz created. I've also had the privilege of playing the Cardinal several times--it is very, very good. It was undergoing an overhaul by Dye and I don't believe it is open for play yet.

[Evan_Smith]

Andy
  None taken.  My point was that the Cardinal and Oak Hollow are just as interesting, but in a playable, enjoyable way that is more like a golf course than something like a mad scientist's nightmare.  The reason I drove from Pinehurst to THF was because it looked like a really interesting course and I wanted to play it after enjoying Stantz's Tobacco Road.  My buddy and I still talk about what a crappy overall experience it was (nothing to do with service or conditioning).

   I think this is one of the benefits of this discussion group.  People can get honest opinions about golf courses they want to play.  Until we know what type of courses Michael enjoys playing, I don't think that we can state which course he is going to play.  There's a reason, IMO, that THF has reduced the green fee quite a bit since its opening many years ago.  Lack of repeat play.  Also, the fact that you've never played the course, and are basing your recommendation on other courses that the architect has designed seems a bit off the mark.  I don't believe this is a well designed GOLF course.  Neat design maybe, but not golf.

  If Michael is a straight hitter of the golf ball he could very well enjoy this course.  But like I said earlier, if you're off line just a little bit-you're done for.  Once in awhile is okay on a course, but this course over does it.  Would you want to play a course that had water lining the fairways and greens on every hole?  It becomes unenjoyable if you're not striking the ball well.  I think there's a reason that this is not a design style that architects take up.

[cary lichtenstein]

Playing golf courses is more than just playing courses you score well on, courses that fit your eye or your game,etc.

For the most part, the vast majority of courses have trees on both sides of the fairway, and if you are a decent player, it is a drive and a 4 iron, 2 putts and on to the next hole.

If you are interested in what else there is in the world besides this, then go play all of Mike Strantz's courses. You may not like any of them, but you will get to see things that no one else has done, and if you like quirk, which I do, Strantz is the King of Quirk.

In Florida, every course is the same nowadays, water on the right or left, houses on the same side as the water so the lots go for more money, etc.

To not play Tot Hill Farm, which is certainly not my favorite Strantz course, would leave a hole in ones architectural education and appreciation.

[Andy Hughes]

Evan, no worries.  I wasn't actually recommended the course; just commenting based on others' observations and what I suspect would appeal to Bogey Hendren. If I were a betting man, I know which course I'd wager he'll play, but that is not the same as recommending he go there.  Unfortunately (fortunately?), saying something is a mad scientest's nightmare is actually an endorsement of course around here or at the least a tempting teaser  

Some day I'll make my way to Tot Hill cause I know I need to see it. Some of it I am sure will leave me shaking my head and wondering (much like Stonehouse--have you seen that one?), but some of it will make me smile and chuckle and stay in my head for a while afterwards.

PS I would also say an afternoon at the Cardinal is an afternoon well-spent. I look forward to seeing the new and improved version this October when I am down that way.

[Mike Hendren]

Thanks, gents.

Tot Hill Farm at 7:24 a.m. Friday, May 25th followed by Southern Pines at 1:00 p.m. (mentioned Ran's name - they charged me double).  

Anyone care to join me?

Mike