[Glenn Spencer]

I have to go with #1 at TOC. Isn't that the original forced carry?

[Brian Phillips]

What about Woking 4th?

Totally agree Mark.

Brian

[Matthew Hunt]

What about:

RCD 4+13

Belfery 18

TPC Sawgrass 18

ANGC 15+16

 

[Tom_Doak]

Matthew:

While I admire both the 4th and 13th at Royal County Down, I can't think of another hole I've seen that is based on them, can you?

Probably the hole on your list I would agree with most easily is the 15th at Augusta National.  In the Trent Jones / Dick Wilson era of design, putting a small pond in front of the green on a par five was considered an important method of "defending par" -- I've seen courses by Jones which had FOUR par fives with a pond in front of each green!

You don't see those small ponds much on new courses, for whatever reason.

[Matthew Hunt]

Matthew:

While I admire both the 4th and 13th at Royal County Down, I can't think of another hole I've seen that is based on them, can you?

Probably the hole on your list I would agree with most easily is the 15th at Augusta National.  In the Trent Jones / Dick Wilson era of design, putting a small pond in front of the green on a par five was considered an important method of "defending par" -- I've seen courses by Jones which had FOUR par fives with a pond in front of each green!

You don't see those small ponds much on new courses, for whatever reason.

Tom, I remember reading about a GCA basing a green complex on RCD #4 but my mind decives me who it was and at what course. There is at least 2 copy's of #13, one of which is in Canada.

I would agree that ponds in front green are not as prevelant as they were, thought the new trend it seems to be par 5s fronted by rivers. There seems to be a trend in the last 40 years of when a redesign is done to stick a pond in front of a long par 4 green which suddenly makes it out of reach for 80% of the members!

A hole I would like to see more of is a short par 5 with a front to back green that would encourage players to exploit the ground game.

[Adam Clayman]

If people only learn from mistakes, Why can't poor holes be influential too? As in never being copied.

I'll throw out the home hole on the Village links of Glen Ellen as an i.e.

[Doug Ralston]

After reading about their relationship and shared ideas, I'd say Alice Dye  

Doug

ROFL!!

I am sorry. We had been talking about Alice's influence on making #17 at Sawgrass and I had read she was influential elsewhere, so I wanted to indicate #17 and her help in it. I was hurrying and just quickly wrote a thought and went on. I had no idea of any mis-context that might possibly be attached till I got a PM.

Apologies Mrs Dye  .

[Jerry Kluger]

How about the 13th at the Dunes in Myrtle Beach - I believe the strategy of that hole has been often imitated.

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