[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Young brought up the issue of dictates by the owner/developer in the context of the clubhouse.

At first, I agreed with him.

Then, I thought, maybe not.

Maybe the location of the clubhouse was as critical as any other element in the design of a golf course.

In general,

Shouldn't the clubhouse be at or on the perimeter of the golf course ?

Doesn't that afford the architect the greatest flexibilty in designing the golf course ?

Shouldn't it sit high up on a property with elevations ?

Examine the top 100 classic courses.

Is there a pattern for clubhouse location, interpolating for differences in terrain and the configuration of the property ?

[rjsimper]

If any pattern I would say that if a suitable piece of high ground is available on a golf course, that is where the clubhouse lies.  

Thinking about LA area classics, Riviera, LACC, and Bel-Air all feature clubhouses on what is probably the high point on the club's property.  *Maybe the 10th green at Bel-Air is a bit of a rise from the clubhouse.

Extending to the others I've played, courses like Olympic and Congressional follow this trend, and all of these furthermore make use of their clubhouse as a backdrop for the finishing hole.

I think that placing the clubhouse is critical for affecting the feel of a place - certainly there's a different "feeling" in the air looking up and seeing the behemoth at Congressional versus moseying up the 18th to the yellow manor at The Country Club...but not only because of the size/design, but because Congressional sits high above the course on a hill looking down on you, whereas TCC is tucked behind the 18th green waiting for you to come to it - it doesn't impose it's presence on you.

Of course, the prime example in my travels of a clubhouse imposing its presence on the golfer is Newport, where you are barely ever allowed to forget that high on the hill in the very center of the course lies the clubhouse, watching over your every move.  Nowhere else have I encountered a clubhouse as imposing as this one, and I believe the placement of it there (and secondarily, the design) contributes to the general feel of the place strongly - it would not have the same effect if it were located at the beginning of the long driveway instead of the end.

Design-wise, many of these properties enjoy the luxury of having hilly or at least rolling terrain, as well as a section of land on the edge of the property that is both suitable for a clubhouse and not really ideal to design golf holes over.  Certainly Riviera would be made awkward (to say the least) had Thomas attempted to build a hole where the clubhouse now sits.  In the event that high ground exists, and is not otherwise wanted for golf, I believe that is the most commonly used location.

Maybe a good follow-up question is what is the best example in a top 100 classic layout where the clubhouse occupies land that should have instead been used for golf?  Were any significant opportunities missed because the clubhouse was slated for the high ground?  Perhaps Newport?

[Scott Witter]

I believe most architects have the clubhouse in mind when working through the routing, they need to in some respects, but unless the owner has made a firm stipulation about its location before hand, most GCA keep it at the back of their mind and establish the best routing first while considering the "differences in the terrain and the configuation of the property".

There certainly is some logic applied, you can imagine why and I wouldn't be surprised if a 'pattern' could be found, but I think it would have been developed intutively rather than deliberately.

[Ian Dalzell]

Pat
I think if you examine many of the top 100 classic courses, you may find several of them with the clubhouse on hight ground.  Surely there was, and may still be, a desire by those before us to position the clubhouse with vistas of the golf course, therefore on the highest ground on the property.  The knock-on effect of this is many 18 holes coming uphill, or stepp walks behind the green to return to the clubhouse - examples I can think of would include Riviera, Shinnecock Hills, Augusta National, National Golf Links, CC of Fairfield and Baltusrol.

Regarding perimeter or central, I'm sure it matters to the architect, but I'm not sure it is that important once the course is laid out, meaning the flow of play would not be impacted either way.  Personally, I don't care to play a final hole uphill.  I much prefer the St. Andrews/Muirfield model, where the final hole and the clubhouse sit on a similar piece of ground.

[Mark Bourgeois]

This reminds me of a question frequently asked of National Parks Service rangers: "Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks?"

For many of the courses mentioned, how do we know the clubhouse location didn't follow from the best routing?

[TEPaul]

"In general,

Shouldn't the clubhouse be at or on the perimeter of the golf course ?

Doesn't that afford the architect the greatest flexibilty in designing the golf course ?

Shouldn't it sit high up on a property with elevations ?"

Patrick:

Donald Ross thought so, if at all possible. He wrote about that. He thought the clubhouse should be in a corner of the perimeter of the property or the routing, and if at good elevation even better.

[Mike_Young]

Mike Young brought up the issue of dictates by the owner/developer in the context of the clubhouse.

At first, I agreed with him.

Then, I thought, maybe not.

Maybe the location of the clubhouse was as critical as any other element in the design of a golf course.

In general,

Shouldn't the clubhouse be at or on the perimeter of the golf course ?

Doesn't that afford the architect the greatest flexibilty in designing the golf course ?

Shouldn't it sit high up on a property with elevations ?

Examine the top 100 classic courses.

Is there a pattern for clubhouse location, interpolating for differences in terrain and the configuration of the property ?

Pat,
I think you still agree with me.
Do you realize how many owners will ask to have a clubhouse located closer to the entrance to a property so that they will not need as much road paved as if you place it on a high point somehwere else in the property.  Same for maintenance buildings....running utilities etc to a clubhouse a mile or so into a property before a developer is ready for housing etc can be a critical cost.

[Marty Bonnar]

I've always quite liked clubhouses set in the midst of the golf course. There's something rather nice about driving (or walking) through some of the course on your way to play and 'previewing' some of the golf you are about to experience - esp. if it's for the first time.

My home course clubhouse is accessed along a lovely single track road which wends it's jolly way through the old parkland estate past a lovely old Georgian mansionhouse (now a hotel) to the clubhouse. I think you see maybe 4 or 5 holes on the way. I'm sure visiting golfers think BPGC is a better course than it actually is partly due to this scenic access drive.

FBD.

[Kalen Braley]

Martin if this is the case...then you would absolutly love Lake Chabot in Oakland CA.

You have to drive thru 4 fairways to get to the clubhouse.  The road is set perpendicular to the fairways and at times just getting there is nothing short of running the gauntlet.  Its hands down the craziest entrance road I've even seen at a golf course, but very unique indeed.

[Forrest Richardson]

It is a balancing act. At Mira Vista in Oakland, Hunter plopped the clubhouse high on the ridge overlooking San Francisco. I — and thousands of others — are glad he did. A better course may have been had, but he knew full well that the ambiance and striking nature of the hilltop was not to be missed.

[Phil McDade]

Seth Raynor's Shoreacres clubhouse sits on level ground at one end of the property, but -- interestingly -- the main entrance to the club involves taking a long, winding road past several holes to get there (I think there is a back-door entrance to the place, as well.) I don't know that the location of the clubhouse had a big impact on the course routing or use of terrain -- it's a very flat site. It did obscure a potentially pretty good view.

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