Lancaster CC photos

[wsmorrison]

I was out at Lancaster Country Club yesterday with Jim Nagle (Forse Design) checking out the bunker restoration/renovation project and the restoration of some tees (7,9,11 and14) and construction of a new tee on 3.  Here are some photos of this wonderful Flynn golf course.  Tom Doak has an excellent course review in his Confidential Guide.

Hole 2



Hole 3



Hole 4



Hole 8



Hole 12



Hole 14



Hole 16 tee



Hole 16 approach



Hole 18 tee



Hole 18 approach

[Joel_Stewart]

Wayne:

How extensive is the work being done at Lancaster?   Looks like a lot of money being spent on the clubhouse?

[wsmorrison]

None of the bunkers had any drainage in them, so they were all redone with the surrounds mostly turf type tall fescue.  The 12th green was raised 18 inches.  Two other greens were worked on, I believe 13 was one and I cannot recall the other.  Many trees have been taken down and some fairways expanded a bit.

The clubhouse had a lot of problems behind the walls.  They are expanding the square footage and fixing the existing problems.  I think the clubhouse work is very expensive and heard two numbers, both of which were high.  However, the golf course is not being neglected at this country club with its various competing activities.

[KBanks]

Wayne, those photos sort of make the mouth water. I see your point about dramatic elevation changes in Philly courses.

When is the work scheduled to be complete?

Ken

[wsmorrison]

Lancaster has three nines, the Meadowcreek and Dogwood make up the championship course and are by Flynn.  The Highlands by Silva.  The Flynn nines are the ones being redone by Nagle and Forse.  the Meadowcreek (front 9) is complete and the Dogwood (back nine) course should be open in couple of weeks.

[Tim Copeland]

Is McDonald and Sons doing the work??

[Jordan Wall]

Wayne,

#18 looks similar to photos I have seen of Oakmont #18, just with less bunkers.
Are the two holes similar in reality?
Thanks.

[wsmorrison]

No, Tim.  Some guys that used to be with MacDonald are involved.  The construction team works for Mark Arrimour at Total Turf Services:

www.tturfserv.com
2647 County Line Rd.
Chalfont, PA 18914
USA    

[wsmorrison]

Jordan,

Here is a photo of the 18th at Oakmont.  What do you think?  By the way, in the original 1920 design, the cross bunker short of the green went all the way across the fairway on about a 45 degree angle offset to the line of play.  It was quite a diagonal hazard!

The 18th at Lancaster is a very difficult hole at 470 yards and uphill the whole way.  It has much more elevation change than the Oakmont finisher.  They are both excellent holes and about equally difficult once you find the greens.  

[Tim Copeland]

No, Tim.  Some guys that used to be with MacDonald are involved.  The construction team works for Mark Arrimour at Total Turf Services:

www.tturfserv.com
2647 County Line Rd.
Chalfont, PA 18914
USA    

Yes...I know of Mottin...Met him once....refer to my signature

[Scott Witter]

It is good to see that a club can also do improvements to the course as well as the clubhouse!

[David Stamm]

Thanks for posting Wayne. Jeez, another great looking Flynn! I love the movement of the fw on 2. Are the bunkers inside the elbow of the dogleg on 16 original?

[Eric Franzen]

Wayne,

After looking at the photos, just like Jordan, I'll have to ask... are the 2nd at Lancaster and the 10th at Merion East a bit similar in reality?

[JNagle]

Eric -

No one really knows if the 2nd hole is patterned after the 10th at Merion.  The current green is not Flynn's original.  It was moved by a past green chairman.  The desire must have been to lengthen the hole.  Flynn originally had a bunker short left of the green and well short and right of the green.  The current bunker configuration (as seen in the above photos) was a reconstruction of what was there (at the green) and a relocation of the left fairway bunkers creating better strategy off the tee.

David -

The 16th hole is also not an original Flynn hole.  Flynn had a green situated to the right of the current green.  In Wayne's photos you can see a flat area right and beyond the fairway (the grass is browing out) where Flynn's green was situated.  There were a number of pot bunkers cut into the slope leading to the green.  The bunker configuration you see know is an attempt to create a "Flynn-like" hole without making wholesale changes to what was there.  The previous bunkers were smaller and not as deep.  The hole you see know is patterned after the 1st at Philly C.C. and the 12th at Pine Valley.  

Keep in mind, Flynn had a 26 year relationship with Lancaster C.C.  He was making changes not long after the course opened.  Even knowing the course as Ron and I do, it is difficult to follow all the changes.

The 3rd hole was constructed in the early 40's yet never had the fairway bunkers constructed as Flynn planned.  The hole was overcrowded with trees and had become a bit of a "nothing" hole.  We took Flynn's plan and implemented the fairway bunker concept he envisioned with the exception of one other left fairway bunker.

Holes 1, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15 and 18 are orginal.  3-6 were added by Flynn in the 40's.  Hole #17 was added.  See above regarding holes 3 and 16.  The current 13th plays to a green that at one time played as a par 3 out the Northeast corner of the property.

[TEPaul]

Jim and Ron (or is it Wayne MacCutchen or Franky Valano?):

Congratulations, you guys seem to have pretty much nailed the "look" of many of Flynn's original bunkers---and not just at Lancaster but Flynn generally even if he did do some pretty interesting grassing variations on some courses on the same basic bunker shape theme.

And now I only have one recommendation to make on those bunkers which essentially has nothing to do with your architecture or your project's actual work.

And that recommendation involves Lancaster asking their entire staff to put all unfinished coffee from dead coffee cups in a rather large container for about a year. They can even throw some of the old used coffee grounds in that large container.

Then the staff should be divided into three teams. All three teams should be supplied with heavy duty mister bottles. Then each team should be assigned six holes each. Then Lancaster should encourage those three teams consisting of the entire staff to take many more and frequent breaks to only be used go out there on the course and use those heavy duty mister bottles to spray each and every one of those bunkers with that smelly rotted old coffee mess.

The team that finishes first should be given an all expenses paid night out at local strip joints---female strippers for the male employees and male strippers for the female employees (well if the members of the team that wins wants to individually decide which kind of stripper they want that's cool too---this is 2007 after-all).

This project and assigment should come to an end when the color of the sand in all those bunkers looks something like the light brown ring around a toilet bowl that hasn't been cleaned in about six months.

[JNagle]

TEPaul -

It took me a while to figure out where you were going with this one.  Then at the end I got it.  I think my wife is trying to figure out what could be so funny about a golf discussion board.  However, she has yet to meet Tom Quioxte and Sancho Morrison.

We are not huge fans of the white bunker sand.  From the standpoint of playability it is a nice firm sand that seems to set-up rather quickly.

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul -
It took me a while to figure out where you were going with this one."

Jimbo Baby, it seems like people feel that way about me more and more as time goes on. Hey, no problem, I am not an impatient man. Time should not be constantly consumed at 550 hp anyway---it should be savored, because it's true, in the end, it waits for no man.

"From the standpoint of playability it is a nice firm sand that seems to set-up rather quickly."

That's good for Lancaster, I guess. I was going to offer them my herd of cats to run through the bunkers on tournament days but they like light and fluffy sand so they can cover up their messes although they never seem to fix their paw prints.

By the way Jim, have you ever seen me ride herd on a stampede of cats? It's pretty daggone impressive, I'll tell you. When I'm really on my game I can rope and hog-tie a dozen of them at a time.

[Kyle Harris]

After seeing the scale of the place last year in the AB Thorn - I can't help but wonder how many US Opens this course would have held to date if it were about 40 miles east of its present location.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

After seeing the scale of the place last year in the AB Thorn - I can't help but wonder how many US Opens this course would have held to date if it were about 40 miles east of its present location.

Yeah, I heard you saw a lot of the course last year...

[Cory Lewis]

After seeing the scale of the place last year in the AB Thorn - I can't help but wonder how many US Opens this course would have held to date if it were about 40 miles east of its present location.

Yeah, I heard you saw a lot of the course last year...

Mostly adjacent fairways and pump houses as I recall

[TEPaul]

Jim:

By the way, you did explain the plan on #3 to me but it really is pretty stunning the way it was done. I remember well the way that hole was in play. It could really bite you if you didn't pay attention and execute two pretty demanding shots but now it looks so much better and so much more "optional/thoughtful".

Good show!

[redanman]

That sand is atrocious!

[Chris Cupit]

Wayne,

the pics are nice and the topography looks very interesting.

I did have a question about the bunkering.  Based just on what I see it looks as if the bunkers have a slight "roll down" of grass--the sand is not flashed up to a crisp uppermost edge--was that Flynn's style--if so it looks really great.

On the picture of hole #12 (a par 3 I guess), it looks as if 2 of the 5 bunkers have been redone and yet three of the bunkers look like they have that crisp, hard edge to the top line?  The front bunker and  the second bunker from the left seem to have the edges rolled down and they don't seem to match the other three.  Am I looking at this right?  Are they going to re-do the other three bunkers?

It is kind of a shame but I also notice how the club has tried to hide the houses in the background and the planted area behind and right doesn't look so great

The only other nit pick on what looks like a really neat course is the trees that appear a little "rowed up".  I think it was hole #3--a slight dogleg left and there is a row of five trees on the outside of the dogleg that seem a little too formal if that makes any sense.

Anyway, thanks for the pictures.

[Chris Cupit]

Whoops--the "row" of five trees was on the first pic--hole #2

[JNagle]

Chris -

The bunkers on #12 were reconstructed last year.  What yuou are seeing is the result of winter dessication and not a hard edge.  We do not want a hard edge on any of the bunkers.  All reconstructed bunkers were sodded with an edge of turf-type tall fescue which the Supt. will allow to grow rather long.  Just the edges.  Lancaster Country Club had a mixture of grass-faced bunkers and flashed.  A number of the bunkers are flashed to within 8-12" of the top other have a little more sand, depends on the depth and steepness of the bunker floors.

Regarding trees, LCC has done extensive tree removal on the course.  The five trees on hole #2 have simply not been addressed.  Additionaly, you have two adjacent holes where safety is an issue.  Some of the trees must remain.

Yes, the Club is trying to hide the property behind #12.  Without the planting it looks even worse and the Owner also requested plantings.