A ride in the country with a surprise ending.

[Kalen Braley]

Pat,

I've been away for a couple of days, but you still dodged the most important question.

Why was Weis good enough to get it done two years ago, where the majority of the players were "Willingham rejects", yet now he can't get it done when a much higher % of the players are his??

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

I've been away for a couple of days, but you still dodged the most important question.

I addressed the question, you just didn't understand the repsonse.[/color]

Why was Weis good enough to get it done two years ago, where the majority of the players were "Willingham rejects",


Because he's a superior coach and the Seniors WEREN'T Willingham's.  Willingham went 11-12 his last two years.
Weis took the same material to 9-3 and 10-3.[/color]

yet now he can't get it done when a much higher % of the players are his ??

ND hasn't played a powderpuff schedule its first 4 games.
Their strength of schedule ranking is # 7 in the Country.

His players are freshman and sophomores, Teams laden with freshman and sophomores as starters and 2nd team don't excell.  

Here's the roster by player and year

Offense

X 19 George West 5-10 197 So.
18 Duval Kamara 6-5 222 Fr.
1 D.J. Hord 6-1 196 Jr.

LT 74 SAM YOUNG 6-8 310 So.
75 Taylor Dever 6-5 289 Fr.

LG 77 Mike Turkovich 6-6 301 Jr.
55 Eric Olsen 6-5 303 So.

C 78 JOHN SULLIVAN 6-4 303 Sr.
67 Thomas Bemenderfer 6-5 285 Jr.

RG 73 Matt Carufel 6-5 295 So.
59 Chris Stewart 6-5 339 So.
51 Dan Wenger 6-4 287 So.

RT 72 Paul Duncan 6-7 308 Jr.
70 Matt Romine 6-5 279 Fr.

TE 89 JOHN CARLSON 6-6 255 Sr.
84 Will Yeatman 6-6 264 So.
83 Mike Ragone 6-5 230 Fr.

Z 11 DAVID GRIMES 5-10 177 Jr.
82 Robby Parris 6-4 209 So.
21 Barry Gallup Jr. 5-11 185 So.
23 Golden Tate 5-11 188 Fr.

QB 7 Jimmy Clausen 6-3 207 Fr.
13 Evan Sharpley 6-2 216 Jr.

FB 44 Asaph Schwapp 6-0 261 Jr.
32 Luke Schmidt 6-3 248 So.

HB 26 Travis Thomas 6-0 216 Sr.
or 34 James Aldridge 6-0 222 So.
or 5 Armando Allen 5-10 190 Fr.
or 37 Junior Jabbie 5-11 205 Sr.
33 Robert Hughes 5-11 238 Fr.

Special Teams

PK 35 Nate Whitaker 5-9 170 So.
or 14 Brandon Walker 6-3 197 Fr.

P 17 GEOFF PRICE 6-3 208 Sr.
43 Eric Maust 6-2 177 So.

KO 35 Nate Whitaker 5-9 170 So.
or 14 Brandon Walker 6-3 197 Fr.

HLD 13 Evan Sharpley 6-2 216 Jr.
or 17 Geoff Price 6-3 208 Sr.
 
Defense

LDE 98 TREVOR LAWS 6-1 296 Sr.
93 Paddy Mullen 6-3 290 So.

NT 96 Pat Kuntz 6-3 285 Jr.
95 Ian Williams 6-2 300 Fr.

RDE 94 Justin Brown 6-3 261 Sr.
or 57 Dwight Stephenson Jr. 6-2 272 Sr.
92 Derrell Hand 6-3 287 Jr.

OLB 90 John Ryan 6-5 253 So.
56 Kerry Neal 6-2 245 Fr.

ILB 40 MAURICE CRUM JR. 6-0 230 Sr.
41 Scott Smith 6-4 235 Jr.

ILB 52 JOE BROCKINGTON 6-2 240 Sr.
or 49 Toryan Smith 6-1 245 So.

OLB 54 Anthony Vernaglia 6-3 234 Sr.
58 Brian Smith 6-3 233 Fr.
53 Morrice Richardson 6-2 244 So.

LCB 2 Darrin Walls 6-0 180 So.
22 **Ambrose Wooden 5-11 196 Sr.
15 Leo Ferrine 6-0 189 Sr.

FS 27 David Bruton 6-2 207 Jr.
28 Kyle McCarthy 6-1 207 Jr.
29 Jashaad Gaines 6-0 203 So.
30 Harrison Smith 6-2 205 Fr.

SS 9 TOM ZBIKOWSKI 6-0 207 Sr.
6 Ray Herring 5-10 197 Jr.
31 Sergio Brown 6-1 196 So.
24 Leonard Gordon 5-11 194 So.

RCB 20 TERRAIL LAMBERT 5-11 191 Sr.
8 Raeshon McNeil 6-0 187 So.
25 Munir Prince 5-10 184 So.

Special Teams

SNP 61 J.J. JANSEN 6-3 242 Sr.
39 Kevin Brooks 6-2 241 Jr.

PR 9 TOM ZBIKOWSKI 6-0 207 Sr.
11 David Grimes 5-10 177 Jr.
19 George West 5-10 197 So.
5 Armando Allen 5-10 190 Fr.

KR 23 Golden Tate 5-11 188 Fr.
37 Junior Jabbie 5-11 205 Sr.
2 Darrin Walls 6-0 174 So.
19 George West 5-10 197 So.

Charlie will be fine when the team is his team.

With ND's schedule, even with good teams, going undefeated or with minimal losses will be difficult, but, that's ND's challenge, producing winning teams with high standards.

I'm sure that you're interested in knowing that Ara Paraseghian was honored this past weekend at ND.

One of his comments was that he recruited and graduated his student-athletes, had 11 good seasons, won two National Championships, and did it all without cheating.  That's ND's history and what they aspire to in the future.

Others have been and will always be resentful, envious and/or jealous of ND.

You may be amongst them.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kalen Braley,

Another stat that's revealing is the 2006 graduation rates of various football programs.

ND                  95 %

Georgia Tech     55 %
Michigan           71 %
Penn State        80 %
MSU                 45 %
Purdue              68 %
UCLA                59 %
BC                    96 %
USC                  55 %
Navy                 98 %
Air Force            93 %
Duke                 93 %
Stanford            94 %

LSU                   49 %
Florida                80 %
FSU                   52 %
Alabama             44 %
Oklahoma           52 %
Arkansas            55 %
Rutgers              58 %
WV                    63 %
Miami FL             68 %
Mississippi           58 %
Ohio St               55 %
Oregon               59 %
Oregon St           60 %
California             44 %

Do you notice a pattern ?  ?  ?

I wonder what would happen to the win-loss records of programs that could only replenish a scholarship for each student-athlete that graduates in 4 years or even 5 years ?

[Kalen Braley]

Pat,

I understand they are playing a tough schedule and thats all fine and good.  But they played a tough schedule the past two years and had success.  I guess you will continue to dance and dodge at the simple question, so we will just have to wait to see what ND does in the next two years...but don't be schocked if its more of the same from this year.

As for ND, I have no axe to grind with them.  After all ND is kind of like the NY Yankees of football.  They get all the press and have won all those championships, so yes people do get tired of the act.  But as a diehard ND fan, I'm not surprised to hear you are in denial over your team...but then I guess if you weren't you wouldn't be a real fan now would you...  

As for graduation rates....I"m sure everyone at ND cares more about that, than winning football games.  And thats why Davies and Willingham are still coaching there right??  Because its not about whether we win or not, its about if we graduate all of our players right??    

Nice try though...save the schtick/song&dance for your lemmings who enroll in your Football 101 course.  

[Mike Sweeney]

As for graduation rates....I"m sure everyone at ND cares more about that, than winning football games.  And thats why Davies and Willingham are still coaching there right??  Because its not about whether we win or not, its about if we graduate all of our players right??    

Nice try though...save the schtick/song&dance for your lemmings who enroll in your Football 101 course.  

Okay, now I am put in the position where I have to support Patrick and ND.

At BC, we have lost a number of coaches over graduation rates. Sure money is part of it, but Gary Williams (Maryland), Jim O'Brien (OSU but now gone) in basketball and Tom O'Brien in football to NC State all left in part due to graduation rates or more specifically academic standards.

Al Skinner at BC has never gotten a Top 50 recuit in basketball because he knows that that means 5-10 kids can get in, and that means they probably are headed to Duke, UNC.... I think we did get one top 50 kid this year from Rhode Island however.

If anything, ND does a better job of setting expectations upfront with their coaches so that don't get caught off guard which happened when Jim O'Brien had two Top 50 recruits get tossed by admissions after he offered them scholarships.

I have spent some time in the basketball office at Cornell and clearly the Ivies are at a different level, but yes as an ND hater (not really) who really enjoyed whacking them during a potential national championship season or two, I believe that ND really cares about graduation rates. They aren't perfect, but they do set a standard.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

I understand they are playing a tough schedule and thats all fine and good.  But they played a tough schedule the past two years and had success.  

Those teams were comprised of upper classmen as starters.
This year's team has an inordinate number of under classman as starters.  Surely you understand the impact of upper class leadership ?  ?  ?[/color]

I guess you will continue to dance and dodge at the simple question,

I answered your question, you either didn't like the answer or didn't recognize the answer[/color]

so we will just have to wait to see what ND does in the next two years...but don't be schocked if its more of the same from this year.

I'd be willing to wager on that.[/color]

As for ND, I have no axe to grind with them.  After all ND is kind of like the NY Yankees of football.  They get all the press and have won all those championships, so yes people do get tired of the act.  

But as a diehard ND fan, I'm not surprised to hear you are in denial over your team...but then I guess if you weren't you wouldn't be a real fan now would you...  

I'm not in denial, I'm in tune with reality.[/color]

As for graduation rates....I"m sure everyone at ND cares more about that, than winning football games.  

It's a matter of perspective and priorities.

ND has had high academic standards for a long, long time.
ND has had high athletic standards for a long, long time.
The two haven't been mutually exclusive at ND.[/color]

And thats why Davies and Willingham are still coaching there right??  

The graduation rates were high before Davies and Willingham got there.  ND's record was superior before Davies and Willingham got their, save for the Faust debacle.
Davies and Willingham shouldn't have been appointed Head Coach.  ND made two, amongst many, coaching mistakes.[/color]

Because its not about whether we win or not, its about if we graduate all of our players right??    

Notre Dame graduated their players before Davies and Willingham got there, so that achievement wasn't anything new, it was SOP.

ND is an institution of higher learning, FIRST and a college that participates in athletics, SECOND.

ND has a history of attracting and graduating student athletes.  That means they actually attend class.
They don't major in their sport.
However, I think all student-athletes should be given leeway when it comes to grades.

Let me take the 10 brightest guys at any school, put them in pads and strap a helmet on them and have them practice for 2-3 hours a day and lets see if their grades remain the same.

Student-athletes deserve tolerable "margins"

But, schools that graduate scholarship athletes at levels of 40 %, 50 %, 60 % and 70 % aren't educating those student athletes.

When so few student-athletes make it to the Pros, that means that enormous numbers of student-athletes are leaving college without an education.  How is that preparing them for life ?  It's not, and it's the University's fault for:

Catering to Alumni & Fans
Reaping financial rewards.
Achieving Glory

All at the expense of the student athlete they failed to educate, who they used and cast adrift.

That doesn't happen at schools with Graduation rates in the mid to high 90th percentile.

At ND, the entry requirements are difficult, hence, many good athletes don't get accepted, but, that insures that the graduation rates will remain high.[/color]

Nice try though...save the schtick/song&dance for your lemmings who enroll in your Football 101 course.  

"Amazing Grace" has a wonderful line.

".....Was blind, but now, I see...."

And so I hope it is with you, that one day, you'll see the light, and the wisdom of my remarks, not in the specific context of ND, but, in the general context of college sports, the student-athlete and scholarships.

Winning, at the expense of failing to educate students is NEVER a good policy, be you fan, athlete or institution.

INTEGRITY is still a desirable and prized quality.
ND has it.[/color]

[Michael Moore]

Winning, at the expense of failing to educate students is NEVER a good policy, be you fan, athlete or institution.

Pat -

Suppose that a person earned money gambling on a college football program that valued winning above the education of its players. Might that person say that the college in question had implemeted a "good policy"?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael Moore,

Some moron has hacked into your computer and is posting under your name.