TPC Avenel

[Andy Hughes]

So I had the chance to play at Avenel for the first time last week, and I am not at all clear why the course gets disparaged the way it does.  I found it to have a number of good holes, several yawners, one head-scratcher, but overall enjoyable to play and in nice condition.  I will say it would have been nice to play it a second time as it was not always obvious where to go or what was going on.

It does appear the course is set to be plowed under, or at least have some serious work done very soon. I don't know the details.

[Bill_McBride]

Head scratcher?  Which one, #14?  Greg Norman was not a fan!  

[Jonathan Cummings]

I have a 2000 word article coming out next month in GolfStyles and (likely) Tour Partners about the Avenel redo.  

It is one of the more fascinating stories I've been asked to write about.  As a longtime player at Avenel I thought I knew everything about the place but in the process of collecting info for the article, I ended up learning much I didn't know.

Over the years I have grown from a disgruntled Avenel player to one who very much likes the place.  While I hope good things for the re-design, I will also be sad to see the old course go.  It is a course of quirk, strength and character - not something many courses can say.

JC

[paul cowley]

Jonathan....just curious ....did Love Golf Design figure in any of your story?

[Jonathan Cummings]

Paul - not at all.  Love actually played only a minor role in the original design.  The routing of the original course was done primarily by Tom Clark.

The new design is being done by Steve Wenzloff (PGA TOUR Staff) and Jim Hardy (design partner of Peter Jacobson).

About half the touring pros were polled and personally interviewed as to what they liked and disliked about Avenel.  

Their comments were weighed in coming up with the new design.

JC

[Bill_McBride]

Paul - not at all.  Love actually played only a minor role in the original design.  The routing of the original course was done primarily by Tom Clark.

The new design is being done by Steve Wenzloff (PGA TOUR Staff) and Jim Hardy (design partner of Peter Jacobson).

About half the touring pros were polled and personally interviewed as to what they liked and disliked about Avenel.  

Their comments were weighed in coming up with the new design.

JC

JC, a complete re-routing?  I actually like the routing a lot, great variety of holes, mostly didn't care for all the spectator mounding.

Of course I never played the place, just attended half a dozen tournaments, so I guess I should like the mounding, right?

We did love sitting on the hillside to the left of #6 and watching the boys either make 3/4 or 7!

[Jonathan Cummings]

No re-routing Bill.  A new course over the old footprint.  Three holes deleted, three new ones created.  The other 15 redone over top of the old holes.  Stadium concept replaced by a traditional golf course.  $25M pricetag.  

It is almost certain to become Wood's permanant AT&T National home beginning in 2009.

Was I the guy at #6 holding the sign up and sternly telling you to "Stand Please!"  

JC

[Andy Hughes]

Head scratcher?  Which one, #14?  Greg Norman was not a fan!  

Bill, actually I meant 6.  It seems an odd hole to me.  Wasn't a lot of fun hitting driver, 9 iron, SW, though admittedly I was out of position after my tee shot.  That is after only one playing so maybe there is more there than meets the eye--not sure I have the cojanes to try hitting a hybrid/3 wood into that green even if I was over in the left part of fairway anyway  

Jonathan, good timing. I look forward to the article. Which 3 holes are to be removed?

I think you are right about the quirk. I was surprised by the number of either blind or semi-blind tee shots.  
Holes that appealed: 1, 3 (neat green and setting), 4 (bit of a butt-clencher there!), 5, 10 (tougher than it looks), 11 (err, is there actually a green up there?), 12 (tough drive, the fairway seems to narrow to almost nothing between water and woods), 13 (kinda clueless on the tee...fairway was not exactly where we thought...and the view below was not at all expected. Neat hole though that lets you hang yourself), 14 (what's not to like?  Another hole that hands you the rope and lets you gladly place it around your neck), 16 (I really liked the green and the way it wanted a 'just so' shot to a front pin. Anything just a whisker short rolled quite a bit back), 17 (little more butt-clenching--was a long shot into the breeze, but was a well earned greenie  )
Also, is the rough generally pretty tough?  It was much more of a factor that I am used to as a public course guy.

[rboyce]

Bill,

A while back I was watching the tournament at the location on number 6 that you describe. Fred Couples put it on the green in two. But, the putter went off in his hands and he started walking after his ball in disgust. Well, the ball dove into the hole at full steam for eagle which stopped him dead in his tracks. The crowd went nuts and he retrieved his ball with a bemused look on his face.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

JC How do they spend 25 million redoing an exisiting course. They have no land cost and most of the dirt is there. This is crazy even for a group that does not grasp economics 101. Maybe they are going to build a 22 million dollar clubhouse. lol

[Mike Hoak]

I remember reading in the Washington Post that approximately half of that 25 million dollar total is allocated for the clubhouse renovations.

[Paul Jones]

I heard the Pros did not like the blind shots, could not hit driver on some of the holes and did not like grass on the greens (I think it is Poa) from 1 member I talked to.

[Jonathan Cummings]

$6-8M for the clubhouse (it will be quite modest compared to Sawgrass).  A complete restoration of an entire Potomac River tributary system (wait for the article for the details).  A new hybrid Bent (Independence) that resists Poa Annua inhibitors along with a 21st century 2700-head Fertigation system (again I'll defer to the article) will ensure a permanant Poa-free perfect playing surface.  It is not unreasonable to expect Avenel to be the best conditioned course in the mid-Atlantic - the exact opposite of the unmaintainable Creeping Bent/Rye/Poa mix that the course has lived with since they replace the zoyzia 10 years ago.

Small greens, penal bunkers, square tees, a strong caddie program, traditional design and Avenel will be unrecognizable from its past.

JC

[Jonathan Cummings]

The hole Norman didn't like was not 14 but 9.  Beman and Bobby Weed redesigned it in 1988 based on Norman's complaints.

AHughes - Avenel's old 10th, 11th and 13th will be gone.  There will be a new 10 (par 5) a new 12th (Redan par 3), and a new 13th (double creek crossing par 4).

JC  

[Jonathan Cummings]

Paul - the current greens at Avenel are Creeping Bent with an infestation of Poa - some greens have lots of Poa some are almost Poa free.

That surface will be a thing of the past after the redo.

JC

[Bill_McBride]

The hole Norman didn't like was not 14 but 9.  Beman and Bobby Weed redesigned it in 1988 based on Norman's complaints.

AHughes - Avenel's old 10th, 11th and 13th will be gone.  There will be a new 10 (par 5) a new 12th (Redan par 3), and a new 13th (double creek crossing par 4).

JC  

Too bad, I thought 10, 11 and 13 were some of the most fun holes out there.  13 and 14 back to back risk/reward holes made for real fireworks!

I was standing 20' away from Norman when he hit a bad drive on 14 and said something to effect of, "This bloody stupid hole..."    So I'm not sure he was a fan.  You're right, he definitely didn't like #9.  

Arnie was a pretty big fan of #3 as I recall!  

[Jonathan Cummings]

Bill - if what you say is true then I have less respect for Norman.  

I think #14 at Avenel accomplishes something that eludes many modern architects - a truely cerebral short par 4.  By design, the architect is pushing your tee shot left away from danger.  The more you bail out the harder it is to approach the green sloped back into the hazard.  

Pick your poison.  Chance your drive up along the hazard - have a far easier pitch, chicken out and go left to better safety and face a perilous pitch to a green sloped back to the hazard.  

Stuff of fine golf.

Avenel has two very good short par 4s (5th and 14th) something very few courses can say.

JC

[Andy Hughes]

Avenel's old 10th, 11th and 13th will be gone

Ack, Jonathon that's too bad.  I thought 10 and 11 were both fine holes, and while 13 was awfully hard to figure out the first time I would imagine the members consider it one of the more fun holes out there.  Is that not the case?  Please tell me the bridge will remain in place??  

I am surprised Norman didn't like 14. Perhaps it was just at that moment after hitting a bad shot.  

[Jerry Kluger]

Avenel is clearly limited by the housing concerning how much can be redesigned.  That being said, it was my impression that technology had ovetaken the course and the pros could simply overpower it.  Conditioning wasn't Kinloch but surely it wasn't the worst conditioned course on the tour.  It simply got a bad rap from the beginning when they moved the tournament there too soon and they were slow in correcting the problems.  It will be interesting to see whether the changes really make that much difference in how the holes play other than the putting surfaces.

[Jonathan Cummings]

AH - the bridge will be gone and the Avenel members almost to a person hate the 13th hole.  It was an architectural mistake to such a degree that young aspiring archies should study it as a text book example of what not to do.

Jerry - the course is not limited by the housing.  It is almost unheard of to hit a ball into a surrounding yard.   The irony is that the close-in housing feeling that characterized a young Avenel is almost completely gone.  The 214 acres of playing field is expansive, especially for an in-town course.  The canopy that has grown in during the ensuing 20 years has provided a pleasing barrier that both acoustically and visually buffers the playing field.  

There are holes that the housing once, 20 years ago, rudely invaded that today look like they have no houses on them at all.

JC

[Andy Hughes]

AH - the bridge will be gone and the Avenel members almost to a person hate the 13th hole.  It was an architectural mistake to such a degree that young aspiring archies should study it as a text book example of what not to do.

Heh What do I know!  Maybe my sense of the hole being tough to figure out wasn't so silly after all, but I would have thought the regulars would have fun with that downhill attempt at hitting the green in two or deciding which fairway to lay up to. Pity about that bridge though.

PS  In my group there was a ball into someone's backyard, off the tee of 15. But it was waaay right and deserved to be in someone's lovely azalea bush.

[Jerry Kluger]

JC: My point was that the course routing is limited by the housing - there may be a buffer but there still are property lines.  There are also significant issues which I believe they are dealing with now having to do with the streams, etc.

[Jonathan Cummings]

significant issues which I believe they are dealing with now having to do with the streams, etc.

Now that's an understatement!  As I said above they are removing and replacing the entire creek and its supporting tributaries.

JC

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