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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Open Courses
« on: May 11, 2007, 06:09:42 PM »
In an unusual move for me, I would like to hear the thoughts of others about Open courses.  Try to divorce any other criteria from looking purely at the course - that means beauty as well.  How do you see the 14 venues and what separates some from others?  Additionally, which other courses do you believe belong with this elite 14?

I actually find this excercise very difficult to do because I look more at the courses from an Open perspective as a combination of difficulty and craftiness.  While I prefer TOC to many other venues, I find it lacks a bit in the kick your ass department for the big boys.  They are really only challenged both ways if the wind blows hard and that is no guarantee.  Then I bump into courses like Troon and Carnoustie, they are tough for sure, but is there much craftiness beyond the difficult element?  I am not convinced.  Then there is a place like Prestwick which I think would be a total birdie fest.  Last, there is Musselburgh which doesn't bear scrutinity for Open level players and of course Princes, a non-Open course Open club.  

I failed to answer the question other than to vaguely place Muirfield, Portrush and Sandwich at the top of the tree.  When I look at these three course I realize they are so different and incredibly so, enough to make me question why I place them at the top and I couldn't come up with a proper answer.  

What say y'all?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2007, 06:27:28 PM »
Sean,

I've yet to play them all but will comment on those I have and rank them in my order of venues

TOC - Home of golf worthy of every 5th Open, can still bare teeth in a breeze.
Muirfield - Long, wind direction will always impact on several holes, great bunkering, flat & fair fairways.
Sandwich - Very tough driving course, greens fairly flat and easy to put on. Great feature holes #4, #6 and #14. Has plenty of space for an Open.
Lytham - Solid well bunkered course with a strong finish.
Deal - As I'm a member I'll let others judge, just to say a 7300yd course has been measured out and our back 9 is as tough as they come.
Hoylake - Great championship in '06 but not enough great holes to really stand out.
Prestwick - No longer capable of holding a current event but must have been a classic venue with hickory. Great fun to play now.
Princes - Difficult to judge how the old course played but a good piece of land and the venue of one of my best ever rounds.

Not played; Birkdale, Portrush, Troon, Mussleburgh, Carnoustie & Turnberry
Cave Nil Vino

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2007, 12:49:45 AM »
Sean,

like Mark I will only comment on the ones I have played:

TOC- Depends very much on the wind and the pin positions. Bunkers seem to be less of an issue in the last few years for the pros. Definitely worthy of the open every 5 years.
Muirfield- Requires solid golf to get round it. Probably the course the 'fairest' of the Open courses.
Lytham-Story of two nines. Score going out, hang on coming in. Great course
Hoylake-Great course, much improved in the years leading up to the Open 06. May not look quite the part for some people but you realise it is when you have played it several times.
Prestwick-Shame it can't be used anymore. If they were to be, I wonder how the pros would cope with some of the holes from an emotional point of view?
Birkdale-great links course, weak when judged against par but very much in the style of Muirfield 'what you see is what you get with no hidden extras'.
Troon-Good Open venue with tough finish. Never rated it very highly myself but seems to push the right buttons for many of the tour pros
Mussleburgh-A course destroyed by the local council. Too short to hold an open (only 9 holes) but still has all the aspects of a good links.
Carnoustie-Great and tough course. There is a tendency to moan about how the pros destroy courses these days but then trashing a course if the pros find it difficult. Due to the bunkering around the green and the shape of the greens would play difficult with or without the rough if it is firm enough and given a stiff breeze.
Turnberry- Scene of probably the greatest ever Open (1977 Duel in the Sun) and Probably the greatest ever round (Greg Norman, 2nd round, 1986). Proved itself as a solid Open venue since its inclusion

Not played the rest so no comment.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2007, 04:18:34 AM »
Musselburgh is nowdays a curiousity rather than a serious course.  Miss the green and you will normally have a simple chip to recover, there's no rough to speak of and it's also pretty short.  But for  hickory course with original balls....

The idea of tens of thousands of supporters there tickled me until I realised you could have grandstands built all around iif on the racecourse - real stadium golf.  Have the crowds cheer and chant when a put falls. Have the competitors do there rounds in two halfs, i.e. 9 in the morning and 9 in the afternoon.  Gentlemen I have seen "The Future of golf" and hopefully this isn't it.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ed Tilley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2007, 06:03:01 AM »
The one course in the UK that really stands out as an Open course but hasn't hosted it is Royal County Down. I wonder if the recent transformation of N.Ireland and near elimination of the 'Troubles' may lead to it's inclusion on the rota.

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2007, 06:37:01 AM »
Sean

I'll bracket them in groups

St. Andrews (Old) - have to have good touch and a sharp short game
Muirfield - a great routing
Royal Birkdale - weak shots into the green are punished

Royal Portrush (Dunluce) - it's finishing holes are a disapointment
Carnoustie (Championship) - it's finishing holes are quite the opposite
Royal St. George's - contrasting nine's the F9 in and amongst the dunes the back nine is a damn tough test - difficult to hit a fairway
Royal Troon (Old) - demanding B9 - each and every hole home is tough

Turnberry (Ailsa) - the holes along the ocean are proably it's best save for 16
Royal Lytham & St. Annes - beware of the bunkers
Royal Cinque Ports (Deal) - see Troon
Royal Liverpool - tests the drive more than most of the other venues

Prestwick - a step back in time - has some classic holes
Princes - never judge a book by it's cover - tougher than first glance
Musselburgh (Old) - fun more than anything else

RCD and Kingsbarns could be worthy of holding an Open

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2007, 11:38:33 AM »
I don't think RCD or Portrush would get a look in with the present hotel provision and transport infrastructure.  I don't think RCD would want it - certainly in the days when I played it a bit the reason given was that they didn't want damage to the flora and fauna.

Infrastructure is the reason only one course in the south of England is currently on the roster.  Perhaps Deal will be brought on board.  Turnberry was omitted for some years for the same reason

Troon seems to get a low rating architecturally, but shots such as the approach to the 10th green or finding the 13th fairway from a back tee can be as exciting as they come.  The front nine is fairly mundane, with a particularly notable exception.  I loathe the 9th and have never understood how anyone can play the hole in par, but they do.  The two par 5s going out are pretty dull, but I love the short 5th between them and the 7th is one of golf's loveliest holes.  The first 3 are a walk-over for the big boys, but allow people like me to be broken in gently.  That, of course, leaves the Postage Stamp, a quite brilliant hole.  I know I've said this before, but it's worth playing Troon in the winter in order to play the original hole, which is beyond and to the left of the big mound normally on the left of the green.  It's a wicked hole!

Birkdale is the other course which doesn't set many pulses racing on GCA.  I have loved every round I've played there and have always found the course to have many more subtleties than might appear at first glance.  I think Martin Hawtree did an excellent job of rebuilding the greens.  I've played it quite a few times in mixed golf, and then you notice further subtleties.  Take the 14th, for instance, a mid-length par 3 across a valley to a tipped-up green.  A competent lady golfer, but not a particularly long hitter, unable to clear the green-front bunkers is forced to hit a wood towards the left front of the green, run it through the gap and then watch as the ball climbs the slope of the green, veering all the time to the right, until it trickles down to the hole having turned through 180-degrees in the course of its journey.  I was at Birkdale when O'Meara won the Open and it was interesting to watch players then at the peak of their career struggling around the greens - few could get the ball as close to the pin as we might have expected them to.  OK, there were some fabulous rescue shots - Rose from the 18th rough and (especially) Watts from a greenside bunker on the 18th - but the general success rate suggested to me that the greens were more mischievous than some give them credit for.  And for spectators there are few better courses for visibility.  

Now, those who complain that Birkdale's fairways are just too flat and fair and don't have the unpredictability of true links golf, are Birkdale's fairways any flatter than Hoylake's?  
« Last Edit: May 13, 2007, 02:01:25 PM by Mark_Rowlinson »

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2007, 06:19:51 PM »
There was something on the BBC website recently concerning the need to get your tickets for the walker cup ASAP as they were only allowing 8000 spectators per day for H&S reasons.   No chance the open will ever be played there on that basis.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2007, 09:27:52 AM »
I have to take this oppotunity to agree with Mark, as Royal Birkdale is my favourite of all the Open courses.
Growing up I had the privelage of palying all the courses on the rota in tournaments either at Boys/Youths or indeed full amateur level and without a doubt Birkdale was the best combination of fun,fair and tough.
No gimmicks, in front of you golf..good shots rewarded and poor shots severly punished, especially around the greens.
It could have the best selection of par 3's on the rota, especially the awesome 12th, which is one of my favourite holes anywhere in the world.
The walk up 18 to the white splash clubhouse, is one of the greatest walks in golf...I confess not the same as 18 at the Old Course...but nothing is......but yes...Birkdale is truly one of the greats.

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Open Courses
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2007, 11:16:59 AM »
Tony
You are correct , apart from its 10,000 specators per day.

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