Really now, how good is Prairie Dunes?

[Jason Blasberg]

I just returned from 5 rounds of golf in which I made 7 birdies (6 on the front and 1 on 17, hit the sucker with driver -5 wood and 2 putted from above a back pin)
over 20 double bogeys and shot not better than 81 and no worse than 85 . . .

BTW, the 85 was in a $ bet from my buddies that I couldn't break 90 in medal play on Friday morning which was about 20 mile hr winds.  Well the wind was howling and I missed 2 two-footers to shoot 85.  It's in the top 5 best rounds I've ever played . . .

PD is very difficult to score well on, especially in a 1+ club wind, and is very easy to blow up on, by definition PD is a perfect championship venue but I'm wondering how good it really is, architectually?  

I mean, is it all good looks and no soul?

Hint . . . hint . . . the tees on 2 were back right ever day, just talk about angles

[John Kavanaugh]

Jason,

Nest time you go you need to tell us before you leave so I can watch for you flying over my house.  I know Prarie Dunes is a great course but how is the Hutch night life.  Do they have on site cottages and it almost sounds like you were in the bad weather cycle K recently had.  What is the back story on a PD trip?

[Jason Blasberg]

John:

No offense but this post is not about the back story . . . my recent trip solidified my view that PD is one of the greatest courses I've ever played.  Tough as nails and great.  

I was hoping to elicit some other thoughts.    

Jason

[Chris_Clouser]

Jason,

One of the two best courses I have ever played.  The other being Crystal Downs.  

[Mark Arata]

It isnt my overall favorite course, Pacific, Cypress, Fisher's are my 3 favorites, becuase I have a thing for being near water (most whales do....) but it is the next one on the list, and pretty much the best course I have ever played.....

As for the nightlife..........next question.........

[Gene Greco]

Jason:

       ALMOST as good as Engineers.

I believe most people who have played it who post on this website see it as nothing less than a masterpiece which resists scoring in a sneaky way much like Shinnecock.

[Richard Pennell]

Jason - told you you'd love it! I was lucky enough to play it three times over a couple of days, and had the same trouble scoring while thoroughly enjoying it. I promised to dig out photos and haven't yet - sorry. Have you got any for us?

How'd you fare on the 10th, by the way? I had three goes at what ought to be a straightforward par 3 and managed 2 double bogeys and a lost ball. One day I'll get back there and put that right.

Cheers

Richard

[bbarkley]

Richard- What a wonderful time we had out there!!  Be sure to let me know when your heading back out there so I can have a rematch.  I think this is the hole where I lost the match....


What a difference a day makes.... round one.....(luckily only the last few)


and the 5th on the final round on day 2... perfect conditions....

[Matt_Ward]

Jason:

Put PD in the Hamptons and the rest would take care of itself in terms of worldwide fanfare.

The only thing Hutchinson and Hamptons has in common is the first letter.

I love PD from the two times I have played it and concur with your thoughts.

P.S. Nothing like Yucca in full bloom -- unless your ball lays near it !!!

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Prairie Dunes is one of my personal favorites, and the ONLY reason I keep Kansas in my West Coast sales territory.

The original 9 (#'s 1,2,6,7,8,9,10,17,&18) that were constructed by Perry Maxwell are genius (would love to see #17 from that original tee).  And, most of Press' holes are very, very good (IMHO).  I don't like the Cottonwood trees on #12, because i think it makes that hole completely different than all 17 other holes.  His standouts are #4,5, and 16.

[Joe Perches]

most of Press' holes are very, very good (IMHO).  His standouts are #4,5, and 16.

the 5th [] perfect conditions....

Ran's PD review and more pictures of the 5th:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/prairiedunes2.html




What makes this a standout hole?  I don't see it.

[Sean Leary]

Joe,

It is tougher hole than it is a great hole, as it plays back into the prevailing wind. Just a straightaway tough hole, but not amongst my Press favorites. I like 11 and 16 from Press the best.

Jason,

How many balls lost in the gunsch in your 5 rounds for those 20 doubles? A scratch friend of mine never finished 17 in 4 rounds.

[John Kirk]

I'm one of the guys who have offered a contrary opinion about Prairie Dunes.  I was fortunate to be invited last year to play the course for 4 or 5 consecutive days.  I also failed to break 80, and wrote a rather long post here about the difficulty.

I found Prairie Dunes very beautiful and brutally difficult.  In my opinion, too many balls find their way into the unplayable long grass.  One less than distinguished shot leads to bogey or worse.  I was often faced with greenside recovery shots of extreme difficulty, which I rarely was able to get up and down.

It sure is a pretty place.  Great walking course.  Nice hole variety, though I would say the demands presented by three of the par 3s, especially 2 and 4, are repetitive.  So difficult I found it demoralizing.  I'd rather not have my ass kicked so thoroughly.  On the other hand, I found myself wanting to have another crack at it, day after day.

Prairie Dunes has a whole lot of soul, but it's pretty cruel.  I don't really see how never breaking 81 makes it a great place.  There, now I've done it; nobody's ever going to invite me again.    

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Sorry but I don't agree with the the 5th being one of the standout holes.  The original Perry Maxwell holes are the standouts in my book.  Particularly the diabolical greens with several pinning areas and complicated internal mounding creating difficult reads from many angles and demanding accurate approach shots to spots on the greens.  

I did find the revered "gunch" to be overly penal particularly when winds were gusting into the thirties.  Tee shots become an exercise in trigonometry in an attempt to ride the ball into a findable spot.  

Prairie Dunes in undoubtably a gem and to find it in Hutchinson KS, America what a country.

[Jerry Kluger]

Allow me to ask perhaps an overly simply question: How does PD compare to Sand Hills - I understand that Sand Hills is a much bigger course, but I was wondering, do you see PD as an influence on C & C when they designed SH - do you see SH as the evolution of PD? I understand I could be way off but I have played SH and I haven't played PD so I was trying to get a better feel of the course.  Perhaps you can point to another course which can be better associated with PD.

[Richard Pennell]

Richard- What a wonderful time we had out there!!  Be sure to let me know when your heading back out there so I can have a rematch.  I think this is the hole where I lost the match....

Thought you might open this thread Bryan! Great games, but I'm still sore about losing down 18 on the course we played just before Prairie Dunes...have to rematch that one, too

[ed_getka]

Jason,
   I wrote a thread about PD last year, around April I suppose, where I asked what keeps PD from being considered the #1 course. It elicited some good responses.
   When people ask I define the course in 3 words, no let up. Also your birdie to bogey ratio supports my other definition of PD, hard to birdie, very easy to double -bogey. Having said that I find the course very fair and enjoyable to play, even at my level of golf (11-handicap).
   I think the uphill nature of all the par 3's detracts a bit, as there is a bit of repetition there.
   One of the most balanced golf courses I have played. When you look at driving demands, approach shots, short game, and putting demands I feel PD tests all 4 areas pretty equally. Another favorite course of mine I put in the well-balanced category is Royal Dornoch.

Jerry,
   I don't think there was much influence on SH from PD from what I have seen of the two courses. I'm trying to think of something like PD, but haven't come up with anything yet. Interesting question though since Coore/Crenshaw have been on retainer at PD for a number of years.

[Jason Blasberg]

Some random thoughts:

I still can't believe Loren Roberts posted 62 in the Senior Open last year . . . truly amazing.  Although they played the course at about 6,300 yards and played to the "bucket" pin on #2.  Front right from the lower left tee, basically straight on with less angle, from 128 yards is a pitching wedge birdie feast for anyone, especially the 50 somethings.

From the white tees, about 6200 yards its very playable and driver is only required on a couple of holes so the penal gunch off the fairway is tempered.  I couldn't stop hitting hooks so I lost about 2-3 balls per round, although I lost only one ball in the medal play 85 I had.  For the record there was a City of Hutchinson tourney directly behind us that day and there were two 72s posted in really tough conditions.  There was also a 98 and 100 +.

I find the white tees a lot of fun because I can pick my poison off the tee . . . for instance down wind I hit hybrid-hybrid to 10 yards short of 7 green and pitched to 3 feet for birdie.  From the blues I hit driver-5 iron downwind to 40 feet for a two putt birdie but the drive on 7 is tight and the bunker down the left is very reachable.

I think 5, 9 and 13 are just too tough for me to enjoy playing regularly from the tips.  

At about 6750 PD from the back tees is a long par 70.  

Notably, with 5-7 iron in my hand I did not par number 10 in five attempts and lost 2 balls in the process.  That's one maddening tee shot for me . . . I choke on that tee shot before I even get off the airplane in Wichita . . .