[Jerry Kluger]

In watching the 18th at the Wachovia last Sunday I was fascinated by how effective that little stream was as a hazard.  However, here's the question I that came to me and I was wondering what others think about it:  When the players come to the 18th this Sunday they will see a large body of water which could come into play on their tee shots and their second shots, and I doubt that anyone in the running on Sunday will hit it in the water.  On the other hand, the little stream running down the 18th at Quail Hollow came into play for at least two of the players who were in contention. Do you think that the size of the hazard in any way was the reason why Singh and Stricker wound up in that little stream - do you think that they would have hit it there had the hazard been a lake instead?  What I am suggesting is that a smaller hazard may let the player relax a bit more and perhaps get a bit sloppy and be more effective than a larger hazard.  

[Pete Lavallee]

Jery,

It was amazing how a 2 foot wide stream claimed so many victims on Sunday; even Nick Faldo commnted on how he should take note of that for future design considerations.

I think it was the right to left slop of the fairway landing area that caused that many misses to be directed to this particular area. The slopes of the creek do gather shots and make it extensively wider; but I don't think we would hve seen as many shots end up there if the LZ of the fairway was more level.

[TEPaul]

Jerry:

The whole idea of a hazard really well placed but unusually small may be the best way to go in the future. In this context I'm thinking more along the lines of a small bunker placed precisely in the area where a player may want to hit the ball (such as the middle of the fairway). Behr called this type of thing "The Line of Instinct", and when that spot was taken away from the player as a place to hit the ball it created what he called "Line(s) of Charm"---eg up to four ways to place a ball to avoid it.

The point of it being small but very centrally placed is that it still very much gets the player's attention strategically but being small it tempts him into feeling it can be missed more easily than something much larger. And the pay-off philosophy is if he happens to hit it the fact that it's so small should lead him to feel that hitting it is no one's fault but his own.  

The stream to the left of #18 at Quail Hollow is technically small and narrow but I think we all could see how effectively balls collected into the water off the much wider area surrounding it which is also a hazard.

The way this Quail Hollow hazard is designed and maintained is much like Rae's Creek in front of ANGC's 13th. If either club were to raise the water level on either stream I guarantee you players would be much less likely to go in it, as ironic and counter-intuitive as that may seem.

[mike_malone]

 The #8 hole at Rolling Green fits this description. The creek bed is crescent shaped and only about 6 feet from side to side. The width of the the creek itself isn't more than a couple of feet, but it catches an enormous amount of balls. You can see the hole under the My Home Course section.

   This is because of Jerry's premise; you think you can avoid it.

[Jerry Kluger]

It really is amazing the way some hazards intimidate and some don't - Vijay knew the stream was there and apparently had hit it in there before yet he still allowed it to come into play.  Stricker knew that anywhere but left would still leave him a chance of winning.  The human mind is simply amazing and how it chooses to simply ignore what is obvious.

I have recollections that Mike Strantz used streams quite effectively - I believe both RNK and Bulls Bay had streams that were very effective hazards.

[Ken Moum]

Like the bunker at the Road Hole--lots of balls have ended up in it because someone "thought they could avoid it."

It's one of the things I like most about many Scottish greenside bunkers. They tempt you to skirt the edge for an optimum result, but if you have even a slight failure of nerve they suck your ball in like a black hole.

I can recall a shot at Brora like that. The bunker was very small, exactly in my line, and no way to pitch over it. The perfect shot would have banked around the lip, and ended up close, but too little speed and.....

So I hit it too hard, and took another bogey.

Ken

[Pete_Pittock]

Jerry,
You beat me. I was sidetracked two days ago before I was going to start Does Size Matter...For a Hazard. Plus yours is more erudite.

Very few balls were hit into the lake on 17. That is more reasonable because the penalty was essentially stroke and distance. It factors downwards because
 -it's so small I won't get in it
 -it's so shallow I can play out of it
 -if I need to take a drop I can get up and down
It also works well on the 18th as an ego trap.
   On the professional level we can xxxxx out the cost of a golf ball, but when I play I tend to steer away from lakes, but not from creeks.
   
  I think the argument can best be distilled in less than an hour at Augusta National when you compare 13 vs 15.

[Jerry Kluger]

To me, Vijay is possibly the more typical top pro today - grip it and rip it with the driver as it most often doesn't matter if it is in the fairway since the next shot will be short enough that it doesn't matter where he has to play it from.  On 17, he was hitting an iron off a tee so the water didn't intimidate him at all, in fact, he hit it left of the pin which was amazing considering he was in contention to win.  

I just think with Stricker that if it was the second shot on 18 this Sunday there would be no way that he would hit it left of the green.  As soon as he hit it I said to my son that his backswing was too short and that shot is going left.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I would vote the Strath Bunker at the Number 11 Eden Hole at TOC as the smallest Hazard that has the most effect.

Just ask Bobby Jones what he thought about it.

The Strath Bunker gets more intimidating the more you play it and it’s so small you can hardly swing a club (maybe that’s why?).

We need more imitations

[Kalen Braley]

How effective is the Devils Arse hole at Pine Valley?

Is it mostly just intimidation or does it really come into play for most who play the hole?

[Pete Lavallee]

I would vote the Strath Bunker at the Number 11 Eden Hole at TOC as the smallest Hazard that has the most effect.

Just ask Bobby Jones what he thought about it.

I think he would say he would rather be in Strath, since it was Hill bunker that made him rip up his score card.

[Jerry Kluger]

Kalen: My recollection of the hole you are speaking of brings that bunker into play because you just don't want to be above the hole.

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