Is Quail Hollow really only the 18th best course in NC?

[David Miller]

The players and announcers rave about this course.  It seems to offer beauty, challenge and the chance for strategic play.  Yet Golf Digest ranks it #18 in North Carolina?

Am I missing something here?  I can't imagine there are 17 better courses in the state.

[JNC Lyon]

Oak Hollow in High Point and Winston Lake in Winston Lake are probably much more unique in terms of land and overall variety of holes.  Those two courses probably weren't even considered for the ranking.  Check out Pinehurst #2, Forest Creek, Tobacco Road, Highlands, Wilmington Municipal, Roaring Gap, Pine Needles, Mid Pines, Southern Pines, and Old Town, all of which are profiled on this site.

Quail Hollow appears to have some neat greens and solid par fours in typical Dick Wilson fashion, but is 18 really a great finishing hole? 480, water left all the way, trees/bunkers on the right to catch the bailout.  Don't we see this hole EVERY week on tour? Doral, Sawgrass, Redstone, Harbour Town just to name a few have the same hole, with slight variations.  Long par three seventeenth with lots of water, I've seen that hole before as well.  This course certainly COULD NOT host a US Open with Sabbatini's 64.

[John Shimp]

No, it is better than 18th best in the state.  Like most of the GD state rankings, NC is poorly done and makes little sense.
Quail Hollow is a strong golf course that is fun to play.  While trees are a little over abundant and catch a lot of marginally decent shots, the course rolls over the land, uses water pretty well, and has a lot of variety in the holes.  The greens and surrounds are always challenging and not in the least unfair.  Finally, the course has a wealthy membership and is always in great shape except after the tourney.

Btw, its not a Dick Wilson but a George Cobb with a significant redo by Tom Fazio that I like except for Hole 8 green.  18 is a more unique hole than the others that are mentioned.  There is no bailout on the hole and not much of a layup short either.  Very tough tees shot hit from up high with a lot of cross winds and an early dog leg that makes right no good; laying up too short leaves you 250 into a green with little front opening.  In my opinion, only #2, Old Town, and Pine Needles would be above Quail Hollow based on JNC's list.

Lots of strong courses have had 64's shot on them.  I'm not trying to say that QH is Open ready, but a few thoughts: it had rained Saturday morning right before play and the greens had softened a lot, the Open is played in mid/late June-- Quail's bermuda rough is way, way tougher than the overseeded rye and fescue they just got done playing on, if an Open were to be held holes 7 and 10 would likely be cut down to Par 4's like many Open venues do.  (Tiger was -9 on the Par 5's this week with and was -4 the rest of the way.) Think about Tiger's score and Sabbatini's one strong rd in the context of my thoughts above.

[David Miller]

Thanks for the insight John.  Quail is easily #1 on the list of courses I'd like to play when I make the move to Charlotte.  Not counting on it but hopefully Carolina can get some reciprocity while they're shut down.

[Jim Nugent]

This course certainly COULD NOT host a US Open with Sabbatini's 64.

Wouldn't that mean Oakmont could not host a U.S. Open with Miller's 63?  

[David_Madison]

I agree with John Shrimp's comments. QH is a big, strong, beautiful course that provides lots of variety, interesting shots, and a good blend of foregiveness on some shots and intolerance for anything less than excellence elsewhere. Wonderful variety on the par-4's - - Some holes can be reached with flip wedges - - #14 is especially beguiling, while others require everything you have. Not much trickery, nothing really hidden, but smart play requiring reading the golf course is required for success. #8 green is out of character with the course, and I understand discussions are underway to possible change the green.

No way the course deserves to be out of the top five or ten in the state.  

[Andy Troeger]

It is ranked in the Golf Week Top 50 Modern courses, so they obviously would have it higher in their listing.

[BCrosby]

I was struck by the number of half par holes at QH.

Every par 4 seemed to play as either a 3.5 or a 4.5. The par 5's seemed to play as 4.5's. And the 17th (the only par 3 I saw on TV) seemed to play as a 3.5.

Interesting approach to design. Keep all par 4's at yardages that are either on the low side or the high side for par 4 holes. Set the par 5's at the low end and par 3's at the high end.

You get lots of par 5's in the 490 to 520 range. Par 4's bunched at either short yardgages or long yardages (470 plus).

You minimize the number of holes that fall in the middle range of yardages for a given par. Interesting design principle.

Bob

 

[tlavin]

I don't know where it should stand in the NC rankings, but it is right up there in terms of difficult challenges for a regular tour stop.  It has elevation, turns, hazards, difficult approaches into greens and plenty of length.  I was reading about the history of the various changes to the course over the course of time and it seems like they have it in just the right layout to make the pros work for a good score.  Sabbatini with a 64?  That could happen anywhere.  He proved what kind of a grinder he is with his Sunday round.  All talk, no action.

[Brad Klein]

Golfweek has Quail Hollow as the No. 37 Modern course / No. 3 overall in North Carolina, behind Pinehurst No. 2 and Wade Hampton.  

[Brian Jones]

I think the fact that GD rates Pinehurst#2 first in the state ratings yet Wade Hampton higher in the national ratings tells us all we need to know about NC's (and probably many other) state ratings....

[Dunlop_White]

GW ranks Quail 3rd in NC. The NC Panel ranks it about 8th (OK!), and GD ranks it 18th. In my opinion, GW has it too high, and GD has it too low.

[John Kavanaugh]

I was not impressed at all on how the course looked on TV.  I have not played it and can't imagine a motivation why I would.  Golfweek must think it is better than Ballyneal....hmmm.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I was not impressed at all on how the course looked on TV.  I have not played it and can't imagine a motivation why I would.  Golfweek must think it is better than Ballyneal....hmmm.

Yesterday you suggested that Golfweek people should stop writing about Erin Hills.

Perhaps for the same precise reasons your mind feels that was necessary it's time for John Kavanaugh to stop writing anything about Golfweek!

[John Kavanaugh]

Geoffrey,

Golfweek has never done anything to harm me.  I think the course and or courses where I am a member are more than fairly represented.  I think Brad Klein has been more than generous in how my brothers courses are reviewed and the design credit for which he is credited.  I have no ax to grind with Golfweek.  I just use Ballyneal as a base line to value courses as they are ranked.  I'm playing Ballyneal later this week and am just giddy...please excuse my enthusiasm.

[Brad Klein]

Dunlop, perhaps you've been spending too much time in Australia. I think you mean that we have Quail Hollow ranked too high and that GD has them too low.

[Dunlop_White]

Correction has been made. Thanks mate!

[Jim Franklin]

I played Quail Hollow yesterday and thought it was terrific. The green sites were fun and interesting, and the elevation changes were more substantial than I anticipated. As a GD guy, I do not agree with our #18 placement for Quail.

The tree fronting the #8 green was being cut down when we teed off and was nothing but a stump when we got there. Two of my playing partners hit shots that would have been dead the day before, but had shots to the green. I thought the tree added some strategic value to the short hole plus the green was one of the most severe there.

The fairways were firm and fast so balls hit at the dogleg went through into the rough. And the rough was deep and tough. Not as thick as some courses, but long. The bunkers were deep and some washed out (a little) because Quail dumped a lot of water on the course to prevent it from dying. the PGA Tour had the course on life support. Is that the only way to get firm and fast?