Membership reaction to tree removal

[mike_malone]

 Yesterday we played away in the GAP matches, the incomparable Philly interclub spring fling. My partner had a few problems off the tee. He twice hit into the gardens by the forward tees. They did not allow a free lift, so some of those flowers are gone now. I suggested to our opponents that the flower budget must be enormous.

[mike_malone]

 Then you have the temporary plantings intended to fill in the space between trees planted until they grow which end up staying forever .

[Rick Shefchik]

Does anybody think the growth of trees is linked with suburbanism?  It seems to me that trees started to be planted in numbers about the same time it became possible to take the suburbs to the stars!  Every house in the burbs had their tree if not more - I spose their little slice of a forest or nature if you like.  Different trees helped distinguish houses from one another which usually followed 3 or 4 different styles or floorplans per subdivsion.  Did country clubs follow the same model in trying to recreate a bit of nature around their courses?

Ciao

Sean,

I don't think the urge to plant trees originated with the migration to the suburbs. If you look at 100-year-old photos of what are now considered inner-city neighborhoods, when the homes and streets were new, you'll see treeless yards and boulevards. Now those same streets and homes are shaded by the canopies created by towering trees, and people tend to assume they've always been there.

Seems to me people have always had the urge to plant trees where there are none, except on agricultural land. And once a tree is there, a lot of people think of it as a monument, rather than a plant.

[Ed_Baker]

Pat,

Do they still have " Arbor Day" at Pine Tree ?

The major physical elements of our restoration were completed in 1997. Roughly 300 trees were removed in the initial phase along with tee leveling and rebuilding all the bunkers ect. We (the committee) took more abuse about the trees than any of the other elements.

 The more subtle elements of the Master Plan such as reclaiming the original green footprints and continuing tree removal have been ongoing every season since.

 Roughly 1200 trees have either been removed or fallen down of their own accord in the past 10 seasons. We (the committee) haven't heard a peep about " missing trees" in about three years now. Our turf is healthier, there are a ton more possible approach shots per round, and the golf course is playing to about the same stroke average for member rounds as it did when the tree encroachment had us in perpetual eclipse.

Be ever vigilent my bretheren GCAers. The results are worth it.

[TEPaul]

Mayday Malone asked:

"What is a nursery tree?"

Patrick Mucci responded;

"Mayday,
It's a tree you purchase from a nursery."

Mayday Malone thanked Patrick Mucci for his learned explanation.

Mayday, have you not yet learned that everything Patrick Mucci says is wooden-headed and just plain wrong?

The truth is a nursery tree is a teeny little tree who wears little knit booties and diapers and needs a nurse.

[JMEvensky]

Mayday Malone asked:

"What is a nursery tree?"

Patrick Mucci responded;

"Mayday,
It's a tree you purchase from a nursery."

Mayday Malone thanked Patrick Mucci for his learned explanation.

Mayday, have you not yet learned that everything Patrick Mucci says is wooden-headed and just plain wrong?

The truth is a nursery tree is a teeny little tree who wears little knit booties and diapers and needs a nurse.

I still say you 2 guys could take your act on the road or maybe a radio call-in show on GCA.You'd smoke the Car Talk brothers.

I got this one at an Annual Meeting last week.
Member: "Why did you take down the tree between 6 green and 7 tee?It was a good place to sit in the shade."

Me: "We took it down because of the shade on 6 green and 7 tee."

Member: "I knew you'd give me a smart-assed answer."

You can't make this stuff up.

[Jeff Goldman]

I think the tree removal program went pretty well at Olympia Fields.  We had bad trouble on a couple greens on the North Course, brought in Arborcom, and basically did what they suggested on those 2 holes and some others they looked at.  Arborcom gave a couple presentations to whoever wanted to come, and Brad Klein came in and gave a good talk, which at one point devolved into a hilarious shouting match, but that was mostly for entertainment.    By then, even the foremost tree-hugger was heard to say "I know it has to happen, but I hate it", which is about the best you could expect.

Funniest thing:  The most obvious removals, huge oak trees around our 18th green, which the club refused to take out before the Open (so the USGA re-routing and used 9 as 18 and vice-versa) were taken out on a monday.  The next day was one of our big Tuesday club events, and this one drew maybe 150 golfers.  The only comment I heard about the trees came from several members who asked "when are they taking the trees out??"  True story.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed Baker,

I'm there so infrequently these days that I'm not positive, but, my guess is that it's no longer a club event, especially since the club embarked upon a tree management program that was greatly expedited by Hurricane Wilma.

TEPaul,

My reply to Mayday was initially going to be all tongue in cheek, but, I didn't have the heart to just leave the one sentence as my reply.

JMEvensky,

We've already turned down several offers, some of which were very lucrative.

We're waiting for the call back from CBS and MSNBC to fill the Imus slot.  We can't go on the air until after June 1, 2007, because they're redesigning the studio such that all sharp objects are removed from the set.

They want me to perfect my ventriliquism skills before June 1st, since they perceive TE as having a rare form of Tourette's syndrome related to GCA, whereupon he blurts out phrases that only an idiot-savant would utter, and then he goes silent and unresponsive for 10 to 20 minute intervals.

This usually occurs when he's asked to explain himself, which to date, has never occured.

He's also been known to spontaneously break into song, usually his version of "Mammy" whereupon he substitutes the name "Coorshaw" for "Mammy".  Another one of his favorites is: "When the Shapers go Marching In".  He tends to sing this during lent, begining with Mardi Gras.  "Maintainance Meld over Miami" is another of his favorites.

When I told him that the very attractive weather girl on the show was rumored to be fast and firm, he insisted that that only meant that she had worked on the grounds crew at Huntington Valley.

When they talk about "High Density", they're not talking about the quality of the picture, they're talking about his head.

[Paul Richards]

Patrick


Despite all the education and all the 'right' reasons for tree removal, some people still don't get it.

For instance, I actually sat at a grounds meeting where a member suggested that 'any future tree had to pass a unanimous vote by the committee.'

Of course, this person will never for any tree removal, so it's obvious he had an agenda.

And he still doesn't 'get it' - and, I'm quite sure, never will.

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul,

Whenever I've observed, or been involved in a discussion related to tree removal, and I ask, why do you think that tree should remain, architecturally, agronomically and from the perspective of playability, I've never yet received a pointed,cogent answer.

The response tends to be in general terms having nothing to do with the specifics of the situation.

Recently, "Global Warming" and the need to preserve THAT specific tree has been given as a reason to spare an intrusive tree..

And, when asked when and why the tree in question was introduced to the golf course, the answer has often been, "what difference does that make".

I think golfers, like everyone else, resist change.
But, tree huggers tend to be tree huggers without examining the specifics of each situation, decrying that NO tree should be removed, no matter how harmful it may be to the architecture, agronomy or play.

At a golf course that I'm fairly familiar with, someone planted trees into the side of the footpad of some tees about 30 years ago.  Now, the limbs invade directly into the flight path of tee shots.  Yet, some members argue that the tree is in a good location since it shades all of the waiting golfers in the heat of summer.  

When I heard this, I suggested that we start planting trees into the sides of the greens so that we could shade the golfers while they were putting.  Do you know that he stopped to think about that for a while before dismissing the concept.

Now, that's scarey.

[TEPaul]

"I got this one at an Annual Meeting last week.
Member: "Why did you take down the tree between 6 green and 7 tee?It was a good place to sit in the shade."

Me: "We took it down because of the shade on 6 green and 7 tee."

Member: "I knew you'd give me a smart-assed answer."

You can't make this stuff up."

JM:

What I'd like you to do in a meeting like that is ask the membership to ask you why you actually left a tree somewhere near a tee or whatever, and when they do your answer should be:

"So golfers can take a leak on it!"

PS:

Furthermore, from here on out I suggest your club schedule its annual meeting in the middle of February and not in the beginning of May. That way many more members are away in the south or whatever which is where they should be when the club holds its annual meeting.

Patrick Mucci said:

"When they talk about "High Density", they're not talking about the quality of the picture, they're talking about his head."

Patricio, you putz, have you not noticed that we live in an age of high technology and acronyms? There's no such thing as "High Density". It's "HD" or "High Definition" which coincidentally precisely describes my head and everything that's in it.

[wsmorrison]

"What I'd like you to do in a meeting like that is ask the membership to ask you why you actually left a tree somewhere near a tee or whatever, and when they do your answer should be:

"So golfers can take a leak on it!""

Tom,

With all the tree removal at Oakmont and NGLA, where the heck do the guys take a leak?  Did they put in extra piss huts?  Inquiring minds want to know.

[mike_malone]

Oakmont is not just tough;it's impissable!

[Jerry Kluger]

Wayne: You don't have to lift your leg so why do you need a tree?

[TEPaul]

“Oakmont is not just tough; it's impissable!”

Mayday:

That’s perhaps one of the best bons mots to ever hit the pages of this discussion group. Good Show!


“Tom,
With all the tree removal at Oakmont and NGLA, where the heck do the guys take a leak?  Did they put in extra piss huts?  Inquiring minds want to know.”

Wayne:

Actually Mark Studer and the tree removers of Oakmont have recently come under intense fire for apparently failing to foresee this architectural problem. The word on the street is they may even get dragged into court in a class-action lawsuit by a group representing the full-bladder set.

NGLA does not seem to have this membership problem as the full bladder set over there seems content to piss on Shinnecock.

[tlavin]

“Oakmont is not just tough; it's impissable!”


Actually Mark Studer and the tree removers of Oakmont have recently come under intense fire for apparently failing to foresee this architectural problem. The word on the street is they may even get dragged into court in a class-action lawsuit by a group representing the full-bladder set.

NGLA does not seem to have this membership problem as the full bladder set over there seems content to piss on Shinnecock.

I think it's time to pass out some Flomax on the first tee.  "Here's to men..."

[Kalen Braley]

I knew there would be something like this mentioned on a thread sooner or later...but I didn't want to start a OT topic on this because I knew I would be crucified.

But on a wide open course without ample "facilities" where are you supposed to relieve yourself?  This is exactly the reason all those pesky "links style" layouts should be avoided in favor of the parksland ones.  

[Mark Pearce]

I knew there would be something like this mentioned on a thread sooner or later...but I didn't want to start a OT topic on this because I knew I would be crucified.

But on a wide open course without ample "facilities" where are you supposed to relieve yourself?  This is exactly the reason all those pesky "links style" layouts should be avoided in favor of the parksland ones.  

Of course,on a real links, you can pee in the gorse.  Care must be taken, however, to avoid serious injury.

[Dunlop_White]

I have spent years studying the virtues and liabilities of trees in golf and have never run across the "leak factor". This is classic -- probably why Oakmont left two large elms still standing on the interior of the course.

[James Bennett]

I suspect that taking a leak next to a tree is just as 'visible' (if someone wished to look) and more obvious as compared to taking a leak in treeless rough.

At my home course, I have an endless supply of trees to choose from.  It reminds me of The Sorcerer's Apprentice (from Fantasia), where poor Mickey Mouse had to deal with the constant doubling of all of the pails of water, except we deal with trees!  Perhaps it is these 'leaks' that make the trees multiply so quickly.

James B

Edit - pail was mis-spelt as pale.  Thank-you 'big chief smokin Joe'.  see below.

[Joe Hancock]

.... where poor Mickey Mouse had to deal with the constant doubling of all of the pales of water, except we deal with trees!  Perhaps it is these 'leaks' that make the trees multiply so quickly.

James B

James,

Your inadvertent use of the word "pale" instead of "pail" reminds me of a childhood faux pas I made concerning the same word association. My math teacher asked me to solve a problem written on the chalk board, and without missing a beat, I raised my hand like an indian and responded with "How, bucketface?"

I thought it was a lot funnier than she did....

 

Joe

[Patrick_Mucci]

It will be interesting to see how the announcers reference the tree removal program at Oakmont during the Open telecast.

Their perspective can have a positive or a negative influence on local golf clubs throughout America, depending upon whether they embrace or reject the concept.

Who will comprise the broadcast team ?

[Dunlop_White]

Great question?

[David_Tepper]

I am 99% sure NBC (Johnny Miller & Co.) will broadcast the US Open from Oakmont. It was only a few years ago that Oakmont hosted the US Am (won by Aussie Nick Flanagan, I think), which was also on TV.

The tree removal program was well underway at Oakmont by then. I cannot recall if it was discussed during the telecast.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Heck, I can't bank as many tee balls off the trees into the fairway now.

Mike, one of the most over looked unintended benefits of trees

Although on this topic my all time favorite quote, and this is literal, an elderly female member at an annual meeting of a club at which I am no longer a member stated, "M. . . You're cutting down all the trees . . . do you realize there's no more shade on the course . . . .?"  

I almost fell out of my chair but the cheesecake and coffee held me in place . . .

People love their trees and 80 somethings love their shade but at the end of the day it's all about the angles baby . . . the more the better . . .