Changes coming to GolfClubAtlas.com

[Jon Wiggett]

Great to hear Ran,

I hope that the Discussion Group remains as one piece as I will often look at a thread that on the face of it does not seem of interest to me only to find it fascinating. By splitting it into topical groups this will be less likely to happen. Being able to search in groupings is however a super idea. There could also be a GCA photo library

[Bob Jenkins]

Ran,
 
I believe I speak for many on this site who are not golf course architects or contractors but simply people who earn a living in an other profession but love the game and want to learn more about the design of courses. Hopefully those of us can contribute something useful from time to time. I believe I get far more out of this site than I could ever possibly contribute. Since finding and participating in this group, I have become much more alert to design features, thinking of the options that would have been available to the architect, asking myself why the architect placed the types of bunkers he did where he did, etc, etc. Love it.

Rarely a day goes by when I do not spend a few minutes checking in on GCA.com. It is a welcome relief on days when I have been working and wracking this tired brain. I think there are a lot of members like me.

As for what I would like to see on the revised site, more contributions to "My Home Course" and "The Next Fifty" would be welcomed. I am hoping to make some contributions to both this year, once I master how to upload photos. I also think "The Next Fifty" could be expanded. Maybe more courses of interest? Looking at the list, I find very few in my part of the world so it would be very difficult to follow up on a course on the list.

Thank you so much for creating and directing this site.

Bob Jenkins.

[Patrick Kiser]

Awesome!  Been so frustrated searching things.  Huge help.

Thanks Ran

[Jim Nugent]

Some suggestions for the new site:

Put the "Who Are You" thread permanently on the left side, along with the other sections (Courses by Architect, Courses by Country, etc.).  

Include a terminology section, that explains the terms we use on this site.  I'm especially thinking of the various template holes.  But other architecture, maintenance and construction terms would be good here, too.  

If you want more contributions, put a small Pay Pal box permanently on each page.  One possible use for the extra funds you generate: more Ran trips to The Next Fifty courses, resulting in more course profiles.  

Don't separate the discussion group into sections.  It's nearly always real clear to me what a thread is about, and simple to pass over the ones that don't interest me.  Splitting up the forum will split up the closeness of the group, IMO.  That closeness is one of our strengths.  

Isn't there a waiting list for new DG members?  And aren't there also a fair number of current members who have not posted for over a year?  Might consider some cutting and pasting.

This is a brilliant site, which is my favorite on the web.  

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thank you Ran for the site and for investing even more of you time in undertaking this revamp, I’m looking forward to seeing the results.

For those who want to help please check your name is on the contributions board (bottom right of this page) as I’m sure the work will not be cost free. Remember this was updated earlier this year to include Pay pal thus making it easy to do it.




Most of the above comment show that in reality we come back here as often as we do for the discussion group.  I’m not undervaluing the importance of the Course Reviews and the IMO – but those sections are less in need of overhaul.

Suggested improvements

One of the most valuable thing for me has been joining in with BUDA cups or the recent trip to Scotland and I would like to see any threads with plans for current ‘official’ trips always on the front page to encourage others to take the plunge – you won’t regret it.

Secondly I feel the group would be weakened if we lost the O/T topics, they are often what stops the site becoming a bit dry and studious as it rehashes old ground for the umpteenth time.  However I think they could be controlled if they had their own separate forum which could only be accessed after opening the main discussion group page.  If only the last 5 O/T topics were on show in their own section at the bottom of the front page, we could keep up the fast moving badinage and the freshness that keeps them valid.


That would allow the top half of the page to be given over to the meat of the DG, Architecture and closely related subjects.  It is one of my beefs on here that I can put a lot of work into a thread/post and it disappears from the front page within 24 hours because of the volume of O/T and other fast moving threads.  We need to find a way to keep the best threads on show for the longest period of time. Peripheral and inconsequential threads need to have a very brief half life.

Oh and a search engine that I can work.

Finally. When a senior (smart guy) poster writes that he doesn’t know how to post pictures then it shows there’s a need for a permanent set of instructions somewhere on the board.  If I can do it, anyone can. It’s just that most people who respond to a Question on how to do it come from the ‘techie’ angle and they make it sound more complicated that it is.


(Also can you change Sean Arble’s access tool’s and prevent him from using the delete button on threads.      I would love to know what the group though of 12-18 Turnberry or the battle of the W’s but ….       Thanks)

[Bryan Izatt]

Ran, thanks for your continued commitment and investment in the site.

I echo the comments on the search engine and posting pictures.  It'd be useful if the search engine could deal more effectively with searchs on poster's names as well as subject words.

The picture posting would be enhanced if there were a way to host short videos as well as pictures.

A much better text editor would be kind of nice too.  It shouldn't be too hard or expensive to get a Word-like editor.  Anything to ease the font, color, bolding, etc. would be nice.

I, for one, don't care about the interspersed OT threads as long as it doesn't get out of hand.  Is it worth the time, effort and cost to create an OT area on what is supposed to be a GCA site.  There are lots of other places to go on about college football, etc.  Why waste any part of this site on them.

Finally, I assume that the upgrade will incorporate the archive of DG postings from the beginning.  Hopefully they won't be lost in the upgrade.

[Sean_A]

I like Tony's idea of smehow keeping excellent topics on the first page longer and allowing OT topics to slide away quickly.  I spose this requires some judgement call on behalf of a moderator who is paying attention.  I also like the idea of somehow saving good picture threads in a separate area that can be quickly perused rather than searching thru the entire backlog.  However, in truth, I would welcome any improvements, but most especially to the search function and the ability to surf old threads.

Ciao

Sean Deletem Arble

[Sean Walsh]

One way of not splitting up the Discussion Group but also placate the demands of the Golf Architecture Fudamentalists would be to include an extra button or two when topics are created.  

The author of topics would tick either the on or off topic button (Or however many buttons you wanted).  When looking in the discussion group we could then have the same number of buttons at the top plus an "All" button.  You would then only see those topic areas you wanted to.

I didn't describe that all that clearly but I hope you got the gist.  One advantage is that it keeps the DG as one entity and allows for the personal pecadillos of each member.

I would also be in favour of a GCA Events tab as Tony Muldoon has suggested.

I also agree with a Paypal donation button rather than a subscription service.  If it is always there looking and it's easy then it will get used. Depending on how much is raised in this fashion as against costs, some form of scohlarship system could be introduced for those members wanting to enter the GCA field(I'm just thinking out loud and not sure how feasible or how much work this would create.)..

[Philip Gawith]

Ran, like everyone else, I get huge pleasure and reward from the site and it is great news that it will become better still!

Echoing some others, I think you should make greater play on the ATLAS word in GCA - in other words, find a way of helping people locate golf courses on the map, and other GCA members - also on a map. I think the latter is important - GCA is as much a community as anything else.

I wonder if you should not consider a "links" section, like Geoff Shackelford has - pointing towards, say, preferred golf reading. Much of this info is contained in threads, but could be made easier to access/more permanent.

I also think you should not be shy about seeking payment for the site, without making it mandatory. Nobody deserving should be denied access on financial grounds - but i am sure there are many of us who would willingly pay up for development/maintenance costs.

Finally, re photos and to help answer Pete Lavallee's hypothetical SFGC question. I am sure you don't need my help, but since he asks.....I would suggest you proceed as follows: if they ask you to take down photos which have been posted, then you should simply do so. But at the same time, you would surely ask them, in the nicest possible way, the following: clearly they have a very well developed understanding of private property rights, but what about trusteeship? Do they have no sense that they are not only owners of an asset, but also trustees of a treasured resource with some responsibility - not obligation - to share that resource with a wider public who have a genuine, as opposed to prurient, interest? I could go on....

[Rich Goodale]

Phillip

My understanding is that photographs of a golf course are not the property of the golf course.  Of course, anybody who posts photos of a course where they have specifically agreed not to take photos is in breach of some sort of law, even if it be only social and moral.

Ran

Great to hear this.  I support most of everything that has been said, particularly John V.'s ideas.

The greatest weakness of this site is, and has always been, that it has had no facility for adequately caching and retrieving important information.  So, we end up repeating ourselves over and over, and those of us who have been here for a long time get both bored and annoyed at the increasing amount of chaff that is being posted relative to the wheat.  Rather than having (for example) a post every week or so entitiled:  "Going to Ireland--any suggestions?" there should be some equivalent of FAQ where all the best posts of the past on this and other topics are archived.  I'm sure that Huckaby will be glad to not have to type in the fact that his cousin is a member of Castlerock 50-100 times a year!

Also, as others have suggested, better archiving and accessing the "Who are you guys?" info would be very useful.  At the very least add a few relevant questions to the personal profile such as club memberships, general handicap range (i.e. scratch or better, 1-5, 6-10, 11-20, 20+), areas of specific GCA knowledge, GCA interests, golfing history, family info, etc..  Obviously, anybody wanting privacy wouldn't need to fill in all the blanks.  The suggestion of a map is a good one too (again on a voluntary basis).  We actually had one operational a year ago.  Why can't it be maintained on GCA?  I agree with others that a better photo posting and archiving system, integrated into the website is long overdue.

Now, all of these things cost moeny, but if we all put in ~$70/year (as suggested) that's over $100k/year which ought to buy an all singing, all dancing website, plus fund Ran's lost wagers in his games against Pat Mucci.

[Eric Morrison]

Thanks for hosting a great site...I haven't been in too long, but I look forward to all the changes. All the input so far seem like good ideas...esp. the search feature and picture suggestions. A lot of great info. can be found here and I look forward to learning in the future. Thanks again, Ran!

[cary lichtenstein]

Ran - A travel recommendation section would be good. There are a LOT of threads on "Where To Play," Where To Stay," Where To Eat," etc. This site has become a trusted source of travel recommendations for a lot of us. Thanks!

Excellent suggestion, there is a wealth of info in the archives

[cary lichtenstein]

Spell check would be a nice additional feature.

[cary lichtenstein]

I am particularly interested in John Kavanaugh's enmity toward OT postings. Some of the weirdest things I have seen on this site have come from his pen. What is it, that when you see someting posted as OT, that you have to read it and become vexed at its content?

Apart from the Merion posts, some of the longest and most interesting threads, although narrowly associated with golf and its architecture, have been of great interest.


However, I do agree with John, in that if you cannot use your first and last name don't bother to post.


Bob

How about a new category for "weird posts", perhaps you could dump all of John K's into it

[John Kavanaugh]

Bob,

I don't start OT threads but I often get in trouble on them.

[Doug Ralston]

Doug,

I really respect the work you do for society through great monetary sacrifice.  If Ran uses both my suggestions for mandatory pay and the use of full first and last names I will pay your way.  I in no way was looking for these suggestions to shut anyone out and am sure we could set up grants for other worthy individuals.

Wow John;

That is a generous offer. My question is: How can I remain in your debt and still feel ethically free to give you the lampooning you so richly deserve?  

As for 'OT' topics, I like the way it is done presently. Most of us know when what threads we start are OT. We can assign that designation reasonably. Then those who read no OT, or read those only when the title strikes them as interesting, can make a choice.

Perhaps, after a certain time period [24hr?], the OT topic could be moved to specific area, IF NOT VERY ACTIVE; but I think we should want the active ones still maximally available. In reality, like everything else, golf relates to all other human activities in various ways.

Doug

[John Kavanaugh]

I would like to see some subtle advertising like on GeoffShackelford.com.  Links to Amazon with specfic golf books highlighted. Possible adds from sites that relate to architecture like hickory tournaments, National membership deals, etc. etc.   Also a set of links showing where other posters hang out on the internet and their screen names there.  That way if a guy wants to talk soccer, football, golf clubs or hockey they can go off site and have at it in a proper forum.  Perhaps even highlight a club of the month like on Golfweek.com where guys can go and get a discount.  Everybody wins.

[T.J. Sturges]

Ran,

Suggestions for the "new" GCA.com

1.  Section with 75-100 pertinent past topics called "Quick reference for the Green Chairman".  This has can and has been a great source of information for Green Chairman.

2.  Section for categorized archives.  I know your site search function will allow for archive searches, but if you also add 20-30 topic specific categories within your archives, it could really be a handy tool for students of architecture, both academic and folks working in the field.

TS

[Mike Hendren]

Ran, you are gracious to ask for input.  Mine:  It ain't broke.

Go with the Isley Brothers approach:  It's your thing, do what you want to do.

Mike
Room 17B

[Andrew Mitchell]

Ran, I would echo what many others have said. I get great education and pleasure from reading this site and its great to hear that it will improve further!

None of my thoughts are original by reading comments already made but some way of indexing information on courses in specific areas would be hugely helpful.  I'm sure there must be lots of time when subjects are simply rehashed as people cannot find similar previous threads.  I have no problem with OT threads as long as they are marked as such, either in the thread title or a seperate area of the discussion group front page.  A seperate section detailing planned GCA events such as Buda Cup etc would also be good as I've made lots of good friends through attending GCA organised events - a benefit of this site which should never be overlooked.

A spoil chucker would aslo be ussefull

[Kalen Braley]

Dick mentioned one thing I was thinking of which is a place to store pictures and an easy way to post them.

A way to put Key Words into a topic might make it easier to search.  Integrating Google searches of the site would also be great.

Multiple discussion groups:

Golf Course Architecture
Course Recommendations / Reviews
Golf Course Queries
Golf Course Ranking Arguments
Rules and Handicap Questions
Toon-a-mints
Outings
Off Topic

A Frequently Asked Questions section where people could answer the questions that come up all the time similar to My Home Course or In My Opinion.  For example, I'd be happy to write up the stuff on the USGA Slope System and Handicapping systems so that newer people wouldn't have to ask the same questions.

More profile information to replace the long lived "Who are you guys?" thread and a better way to find people's profiles.

And finally, thanks a lot for creating this site.

1 2nd this suggestion

This would be extremely helpful and while it might be a little more time upfront to organize, would save tons of times in the future in not having to answer the same questions over and over.  I've seen many other boards organize themselves like this.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ran, you are gracious to ask for input.  Mine:  It ain't broke.

Go with the Isley Brothers approach:  It's your thing, do what you want to do.

Mike
Room 17B

Ran - as always, thanks again for providing such a fine diversion from everyday life and such a worthwhile knowledge base.

But I gotta go with Mike on this... I cannot add a single thing to that except:  hear, here.

But should I be worried agreeing with a patient in a psych ward?

 

[Dan Moore]

I'll 2nd the hear hears.  My contribution to the upgrade is in the mail.

Providing a more robust search engine is the biggest fix in my opinion; glad to see that it will be addressed.  

Making it easier to read all of a participants posts would be another;  there seems to be a cut-off point in terms of how far back one can go.  

On-site photo hosting would be a benefit if it would maintain the photos over time.  Its frustrating to find an old thread on a course or architect that you are interested in and not have the photos there.  

Thanks for providing the opportunity to participate in the community.  

[John Kavanaugh]

I personally like rehashed threads over a thread where someone chimes in with I already did that and here is the link.  That is always a killer and stops people with fresh opinions from posting.  I don't know why but there is something about a topic being fresh that makes it interesting.  I can not think of one thread no matter how excellent that was ever brought back from the back pages that went on to thrive.  I think we need to be careful not to turn this into a book as oppossed to a discussion.

Huck,

Please, I know the world is perfect but I only see this thread as a brainstorming session where ideas are put forward.  Take a chance and come up with something that might help out.  How about a champions locker room where only club champions can post.  That would be fun.

[Martin Del Vecchio]

Spell check would be a nice additional feature.

Mozilla's Firefox 2.0 has a built-in spell-checker.  It works on every web site.  Right now, it has a little read line under 'cary', 'lichtenstein', and 'threadid' on my screen.

Other modern browsers may also have one, but I only use Firefox.

It's available at http://www.mozilla.com/products/download.html?product=firefox-2.0.0.3&os=win&lang=en-US