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Rich Goodale

Southerndown
« on: April 30, 2007, 04:05:31 PM »

I had the opportunity to play three rounds at Southerndown early last week, and wanted to get some of my observations on cyberpaper.  Since I played one day when the course was burnt out and very fast and firm, another when it rained and softened and a third when the wind shifted 180 degrees, I think I am Macdonald/Mucci qualified to at least make a few comments…..

Overall, Southerndown is a very seriously good golf course.  Outside of the first hole, which serves only to get you from point A (the clubhouse) to point B (the plateau on which all the rest of the golf, save the 18th green, is located) there are nothing but interesting and challenging golf holes, routed compactly and with care.

It is a par 70 (SSS 72) with  four 3’s and two seemingly short (>500 yard) 5’s, but the latter have tee shots that are fraught with dangers (diagonal cross bunkes) and greens which have narrow entrances and are severely sloped from back to front.  There are significant but not heart-attack inducing changes in elevation, which (with the wind) makes the course play longer than its ~6400 yards.  You always have to factor in the slopes and the wind when making club selctions.  In my 3 days I hit a 7 to a 220 yard par 3 and a 4 on a 140 yard fairway shot, both with only moderate wind.

Because there is such an amazing consistency of quality to the holes on the course it is very difficult to single any of them out.  Nevertheless, I did particularly like:

2—a downhill 440 yards with an uphill blind tee shot and a fairway that then rocks and rolls seemingly forever down to the green.  The second shot must be played 20-40 yards short when the course is firm, but into the wind when it is softer, you can go for the pin.  Missing the green, however, can be death as the ground slopes away at all angles.

3--Cool because it is a reverse mirror image of 2—a seemingly benign drive over a marker post, but then a daunting shot up the hill to a false-fronted green that takes at least 2-3 clubs more than the yardage would say.

5—a 166 yard shot over a chasm, where it is obvious that if you hit just a bit short you are going to be sleeping with the sheep, 50 yards short of the green.   With bunkers and ex-bunkers filling the hill behind the green, going long is not advised.

11—a hole very reminisecnet of Spyglass #11, with two very solid shots needed to hit an uphill green.  Left is the line as the green is protected right, but left is where the gorse is.

16—another uphill 4 with a shoulder 30 yards short of the green on the left which you know you should aim for and easily carry, but leaves you in a horrible place if you slightly overcook it which somehow forces you to bail out right, from which a par requires deft chipping and putting skills.

18—a really great finishing 4 with two runway fairways separated by a 10 foot slope (left to right).  Left is the best for distance, but right is the best for the angle to the green.   The really big boys in our group hit it past the runways to open ground (about a 280 carry) giving a SW to the green.  This seemed pretty good until one of the lady members advised us that in the Duncan Putter earlier in the year, one of the flat bellies drove the green (423).

Some other observations:

--lots of false fronted greens.  A punchbowl or two might have been a nice respite, but the greens all seem to fit naturally into the land.
--While 4 of the giants have had their hand on the course (Fernie, Park, Fowler and Colt), I can’t identify the hand of one or the tother.  The course has a oneness that is rare.   Ooommmmm….. Maybe others who know the history of the course better (Paut T./Noel F.?) can tell us more.
--the conditioning of the course is marginal.  Yes I know it has been a dry spring, but of the little grass which resided on the fairways and greens numerous species, many of which looked moss-like were in evidence.  Mother Nature will work on this over the next few months, one hopes.
--the views from the clubhouse (and from certain parts of the course) over the Ogmore estuary are spectacular.
--there are at least another nine great holes weating to be built up on the downs, if the club even wishes to expand.  Doubt it, since they seem a bit sleepy, even for Wales….

And………..Southerdown is significantly better than North Berwick!

Noel Freeman

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2007, 04:37:06 PM »
The amazing thing about Southerndown is that when it was developed at least on the card, S-down could be stretched to 6900 yards..

Fowler was there in 1908, Park in 1913 and Colt in 1918.. And don't forget the Donald (Steel) but basically the course as is, is the same as in 1924.

The 1st two holes are Willie Fernie..

The 5th was known as Carter's Folly after a club secretary who may have developed the hole with the help of Herbert Fowler.  What Paul and I loved about it is the pimply nature of the surrounding the terrain at the green's base.  I likened them to the appearance of acne.

The back 9 has a lot of Harry Colt (at least from Paul and my opinion).

The 14th was originally modelled after Moortown's Gibraltar Hole and was meant to be a demanding test to an uphill plateau green.  A tier on the green will hold a run up shot and anything mis-struck is pushed off into collection bunkers.

The 15th is very similar in ethos to 16 at St. Georges Hill or the 18th at Muirfield-- the reason being is the cross bunkers set on a a diagonal 25-50 yards from the green on what is a short (360ish) par 4 which often plays downwind.

18 with its bi-level fairway separated by a ridge is also Colt's.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 04:39:41 PM by NA Freeman »

Tony_Muldoon

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Re:Southerndown
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2007, 05:28:08 PM »

Overall, Southerndown is a very seriously good golf course.  Outside of the first hole, which serves only to get you from point A (the clubhouse) to point B (the plateau on which all the rest of the golf, save the 18th green, is located)

And………..Southerdown is significantly better than North Berwick!


Hard to believe as it seems to start at a disadvantage. ;D
Let's make GCA grate again!

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Southerndown
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2007, 05:35:04 PM »
I played Southerndown a year ago.  It was amazing.  I would go back in a minute.  The ground is wonderfully hilly but not so much that it takes away from the golf.  When I was there the gorse was in bloom.  It was beautiful but if there were one change I might make it would be to take out some of it.  It was a good thing that I had worked on my quads because they got a work out.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Mark_F

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2007, 05:38:43 PM »

Southerndown is solid golf and I like it, but for my money its a filler course in the south of Wales rather than a main attraction.  

Sean,

Southerndown is a trifle expensive for a course you have to search out a bit to play, but you surely wouldn't go to Wales and miss Porthcawl?  If you play there, you might as well play at Southerndown.  As Rich has noted there are some fantastic, and exciting and inspiring holes to play.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Southerndown
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2007, 10:12:37 PM »
Sean, I can understand wanting to play Pennard rather than Southerndown or Porthcawl.  Pennard is not only a great course the members are some of the most cordial I have ever met.  The whole experience is hard to beat.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Rich Goodale

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2007, 03:22:28 AM »
Thanks all

Noel

For a course with so many mothers and farthers, it has an amazingly consistent DNA.  If Fernie did #2, he was a damn good "modern" architect for the turn of the last century.

Sean (1)

Southerndown is by far the best course I have played in Wales.  Of course, since it's the only one......  That being said, if Pennard (or Porthcawl, or wherever) is significantly better, Wales is grossly under-rated by all the "experts."  My guess is that you under-rate Southerndown, for whatever reason.

I finished in the middle of the pack, which was not bad, considering that I was one of the highest handicap players in the group and came back in 48 on Monday when my clubs got so wet I couldn't hold onto them.

Tony

The first, bad as it is, is better than the 1st at NB!

Tommy

Sort of agree re: the gorse.  When the course is fast and firm, a lot of it can come into play unexpectedly (due to the local knowledge required on the blind driving holes).  However, once you know the locations of the gorse patches to avoid, you can plan your strategy accordingly.

Sean (2)

Agree the place is pricey, as well as a bit dour.  They screwed us on the practice day (Sunday) on the argument that since we had such a good deal for Mon-Tues a pound of flesh was their right for our privilege.

Because of the price and the condititioning, I would not go out of my way again to play the course.  That being said, the course has some superb architecture, worthy of "Top 100" status, which is why I posted this piece.

Rich

Ed Tilley

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Re:Southerndown
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2007, 03:57:19 AM »

Southerndown/Porthcawl are 1.5 hours away.  If I don't want to pay for Southerndown, what makes you think I want pay nearly twice as much to play Porthcawl?  Both are good courses, but are well overpriced and won't get my business soon.  If I am gonna drive 1.5 hours for links I am afraid Burnham is my clear choice.  I can play two games and b&b in the dormy house for not much more than the price of a game at Porthcawl!  If I am gonna drive into Wales, it will almost certainly be to play Pennard.  Though I must say, I would like to play Pyle & Kenfig again.  I found the front nine to be much better than what expert opinion led me to believe and the back nine has some holes any course would be proud to claim as their own.

Ciao


Pyle & Kenfig is excellent golf and good value compared to Porthcawl (£50 for a day). The front nine is good fun, with plenty of interest. The back nine is seriously good golf. The stretch of holes from 11 - 16 through the dunes would grace any course. I believe the club drew up a plan to build an extra 9 holes in the vast dune area around 13 / 14 but the plans were rebuffed by environmentalists - a great shame, as this could have made P&K one of the great courses.

Wales has some excellent golf courses and is a truly beautiful country (whilst being hideously ugly in parts). A trip staying in Tenby playing P&K on the way out and Pennard on the way back is hard to beat for value and enjoyment (I think we paid £210 for golf and accommodation). The Bay of Bengal Indian restaurant in Tenby has fantastic food in a stunning location literally on the clifftop overlooking the bay.

In the headlong rush of overseas visitors to go to Scotland and Ireland, the fantastic quality of golf on offer in England and particularly Wales are often overlooked. Long may this continue as it keeps the cost of my golf trips down.

Rich Goodale

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2007, 04:52:06 AM »
Sean

When you speak of "sheep shit" I presume you are referring to the natural fertilisation system operating at Southerndown.  Get hip, Baby!  Global Warming and all that!  Groovy!

I was intrigued by the fact that the sheep seememd to have a fondness for chewing the gorse.  No wonder there is some strange vegetation on the fairways and greens..........

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Southerndown
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2007, 10:09:44 AM »
Rich,  Glad you thought so highly of Southerndown.  I've been trying to sing its praises for a long time.  It's a pity if it has become prohibitively expensive, but with the huge publicity drive to promote Welsh golf on the back of the Celtic Manor Ryder Cup it's sadly inevitable.  North Wales hasn't started banging its prices up stupidly, so go there while it's affordable.

Noel Freeman

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2007, 12:18:53 PM »
When I was last at Southerdown with Russell Talley I believe the vig was 30 quid so it was good value.

I believe the 2nd hole is the best, moving like a maelstrom across the downs.  And of course it was created by the least likely amongst the chefs there.. The cross bunkering is a perfect visual to disallow you to gauge the downhill nature of the 2nd shot and the bottom of the flag.

Philip Gawith

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Re:Southerndown
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 05:50:13 PM »
Here are a few pictures I took of the course last year....I have not labelled them all but the first one is the steep uphill first (the steepest I have ever played) you will also notice the one stand-out short hole with the green nestled into the hill (the 5th?) while there are also a few pictures of the standout, double-tiered 18th fairway. Thd land below and to the right of the first two holes - the other side of the river - is crying out for a golf course. I wonder if it would ever be possible?




































Tim Pitner

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Re:Southerndown
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2007, 06:31:53 PM »
Thd land below and to the right of the first two holes - the other side of the river - is crying out for a golf course. I wonder if it would ever be possible?



Wow, that could be one cool course.  

Rich Goodale

Re:Southerndown
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2007, 12:15:51 PM »
Tim

That is awesome land, but......

1.  It is a protected site, according to the maps
2.  Just to the right of Philip's picture is a sewage plant.  When the breeze wafted in fom the northeast, one might wish he or she were on higher ground.....

Philip

Many thanks for the pics.  Particularly like the one of the 2nd and the 5th and the various angles of the 18th.  There's one with a fall off right of the green that I can't place.  Any help?

Noel

It was 70 squid/pp when my pal and I played on Sunday.  Plus the pro charged me 10p for a pencil!  Not quite "good value" IMHO.

Rich

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