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RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2007, 12:45:03 PM »

Ralph said ;
"The majority of the golf played is 1905-1931 and that is what is refered to as hickorygolf."

Ralph,
Can you clarify this statement and explain your definition of "hickorygolf" ? 1905 - 1931 ?

In regard to your reference about the "floater" ball, may I just point out for any readers, that this ball should not be confused with the UK definition of the floater (circa 1848 - early 20th century) which was made of gutta percha and essentially - floated in water. The term "sinker" was also used for the ones that didn't float  ;)

Alfie.

The vast majority of pre-1931 golf is played trying to replicate teens and twenties era rubber ball golf. That is what I coined about 15 years ago as Hickorygolf. In the US up to that time they were playing "hickoryhackers", a term I and others that were trying to play at a scratch level, found distasteful. Gutty golf didn't arrive in the US until about 7-8 years ago. The organized event, and now events, that attempt to replicate that era do require clubs that are pre-1900 or replica's that are faithful to that era. Gutty golf and Rubber ball golf are such different games I at least try to educate people on the differences. The two eras get run together and they really have no commonalities. I dare say the differences between 1880's and 1920's golf was greater then 1920's and 2007 golf.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 12:59:46 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2007, 12:47:53 PM »

Ralph,
Something I gleaned from Frank Thomas' website:

"I personally tested (on the USGA testing devices) balls which I had in my garage, in NJ, for more than ten years and found that even the wound balls (not as stable as the new multi-layered balls) only lost 1% of their resilience which I, as a 5 handicap, was unable to detect on the course".

You might find some wound or balatas for sale that would work OK, but that window is rapidly closing.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

RSLivingston_III

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2007, 01:01:16 PM »

Ralph,
Something I gleaned from Frank Thomas' website:

"I personally tested (on the USGA testing devices) balls which I had in my garage, in NJ, for more than ten years and found that even the wound balls (not as stable as the new multi-layered balls) only lost 1% of their resilience which I, as a 5 handicap, was unable to detect on the course".

You might find some wound or balatas for sale that would work OK, but that window is rapidly closing.


In the mag test I think they were strictly testing distance loss not resilience.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 01:01:51 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Alfie

Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2007, 08:53:13 PM »
Ken,

Not entirely sure what point your making but I'll try to expand on my thoughts.

you say ; "Fair enough. Following up on your next answer, however, it's reasonable to say that the majority of clubs available today are from 1905 to 1930, and the courses available to play on are at least somewhat amenable to playing with the tools of that era.

And the ProV1 is a pretty good replacement for the 1.62" balls of the day. IMHO. "

..........

1905 - 1930 would be an inarguable timeframe from whence the majority of wooden shafted clubs were manufactured for golfs rapidly growing market. Most notably in the USA.
ANY golf course is amenable to playing with ANY tools of ANY era IMO ! The difference in definition transpires when people involved in organised hickory golf / hickory events, put an emphasis on authenticity & hickory golf.
While the golfer may well possess authentic clubs, does he / she also have authentic golf balls and an authentic course to play upon ? I doubt it very much !
To find the best available to replace anything - does not make it authentic IMO.
.................

Ken said ; "I believe he's referring to the fact that the oversized ball would also float. A modern 1.68-1.62 ball nearly floats, and only small changes in weight or diameter will get it to float."


Not being a scientist, I would have thought that the material substance would have been a main constituent factor as it certainly was with gutta percha golf balls. As there was / is differing strains of the gutta species the resulting fact was that some gutta's floated in water and others sank. I remember some confusion on this matter on a previous thread relating to the definition of a "Floater" ? A gutta percha ball of any size and diameter made with appropriate gutta gum will float. That's a fact.
The term floater in regard to golf has an entirely different meaning in the USA as it usually relates to 1930's Balloon ball. A floater in the UK was a golf ball which floated on water and was played from casual water etc as being part of play.

................

Ralph said ; "The vast majority of pre-1931 golf is played trying to replicate teens and twenties era rubber ball golf. That is what I coined about 15 years ago as Hickorygolf."

Of course, your welcome to term anything you want with whatever you want, Ralph, but I believe you are misguided in doing so. I seem to recalll another thread in which you expostulated the creation of making myths in golf history.
To term hickorygolf as being in the era 1905 - 1930 is, IMO. the nurturing of more myths. Unless we ignore the fact that hickory was being imported to the UK as early as the 1820's and that it had no relevance to the sport and it's history ?

Alfie.

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2007, 02:03:08 PM »
Having just finished hitting Alfie's Willie Park gutta-percha off the first tee on Merion East with a John Gilholm hickory driver, I wasn't able to reach the fairway - but it did feel and sound great.

Our starter, Ernie Latzko, and our assistant Pro joined me with some chipping and putting and we all agreed that it would be a fun ball to play.

Thanks to Alfie !

Alfie

Re:The best ball for playing hickories ?
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2007, 05:15:23 PM »
You're very welcome Willie.

No one can "explain" the experience of playing with gutta balls - it's all in the feel factor !

Whack it some more Willie - it wont mind !

Alfie.