[Ulrich Mayring]

My girlfriend loves to play Golf, but is intimidated by regulation sized courses. She does not want to carry a lake from the tee, she does not like to play out of the rough and she hates deep bunkers. She loves a beautiful, natural setting and holes, where she can reach the green with 3 or 4 shots. She never plays more than an #8 iron.

I usually play on more difficult courses, but I love to play with her any chance I get. So please, make it 18 short holes of varying character that are fun to play and sit in an unspoilt, natural environment (no houses). I'm happy to go out with my carry-bag and a couple of irons, as long as the green complexes are interesting (which, in turn, is totally lost on my girlfriend, but she doesn't mind).

There are not nearly enough great Par 3 courses out there. They are usually just add-ons, not a main feature with a sound design and real greenkeeping budget. All those, who complain that these courses are too easy, should first play a round under par there and then sound off

Personally, I would also feel much safer on short courses, if there was a "no woods, just irons and wedges" policy in place.

Ulrich

[Joe Perches]

which would you most enjoy as a summer visitor or resident with your family?
a)  The best nine-hole regulation course possible.
b)  A great par-3 course and practice facility.
c)  A very short 18-hole course (maybe 5000 yards par 65, I haven't tried to see what fits).

I'd like 2 nines.

The first nine could be regulation, perhaps with 2 tees/routings, 33-3500 yds.
Another 9 holes of 70 to 130 yards, maybe 1000 yards total.  Lastly, a nice chipping green and practice putting green and some additional driving range targets.  I wouldn't care if the driving range is short or fenced.

Nine real holes is enough to play for an early morning before family wakes up, multiple tees or routings for variety.  9 short holes to play younger children, or just carry a couple of clubs.

[Jerry Kluger]

If I understand the concept the families would be coming on a regular basis and perhaps the spouse and children staying for extended periods.  The cost of building and maintaining the courses would have me believe that you still need a core group of golfers who would want to buy in because of the golf.  A regulation 9 would keep them satisfied over a number of years whereas a par 3 course without a regulation course nearby would perhaps interest them for a while but in the long run it would not be satisfactory.  Only some of the kids would be interested and there is a good chance that their interests would change.  It is a big investment for any of the options and the long term would indicate a regulation 9.

[Mike Benham]

I'll tangent off of Joe's concept, a nice 9 holer, par 34-36 standard lengths and then a second "course" of anyware between 6 - 9 holes of par-3s with varying tee boxes.

Full-size 9 holers are perfect for a family summer resort, dads (or moms) can play first thing in the morning, not eat up the entire day or play in the afternoon for a whiskey route set-up.

Kids of all ages can use the facility, either the short course or full-size 9.

In Lake Tahoe, 9-holers like Ponderosa and mainly Old Brockway (home of the first Crosby Clambake) are packed during the summer months.

[Mike_Trenham]

Phil:Mike T:

Is it a good thing that nine-hole rounds are down in favor of hitting range balls?  You don't get much exercise banging balls.

Heck no I think somewhere we found data that handicaps are up since the range was installed.  But we also lost the practice putting green to the new clubhouse last year.  Not that anyone ever practiced putting that much before.

And you don't get much exercise riding a cart for nine holes either which many of our member do.  I'll find another hobby when I need a cart.

[Greg Cameron]

TD,my vote would be for a 18 hole exec.,bearing in mind that family golf includes juniors and seniors(demographics,green fees).A friend built 10 holes in arizona desert 3 yrs ago,and finally money is in place now for last 8 holes,all locals and snowbirds want 18 holes,not 9,even though yardage will only be 5000.Many 60 & 65 year old hubs and wives playing together,similar to my grandparents,me,aunties,uncles,etc playing together in 3 hrs as a kid,always 18 though,usually par 3"s.Maybe your client doesn't need green fee's now,but one day that course may need public golf,and 18 I believe always draws more,IMO....cheers Greg  

[Greg Murphy]

Greg,

I think you're leanings would be shared by a great many.

But I'd be a bit cautious when doing "market research" with users of any existing facility. They will tend to say they want more of what they've become accustomed to. They don't know any better.  At Katepwa, prior to the new course being built, those that had played the old course would have voted overwhelmingly to keep the existing eighteen holes and just try to improve upon them. I'm guessing not a single one of them would say that now.

From a revenue perspective, I wasn't aware that seniors and juniors paid green fees.  Will a "pint-sized" eighteen hole course be more profitable than a "traditional" nine holer? That will depend on a lot of factors, but on the expense side, I'm pretty confident in saying that eighteen shortish holes will be significantly more expensive to maintain at the the same level of condition than nine longer holes. Also, I can't envision a short eighteen hole course actually drawing players from beyond the immediate "captive market" whereas our experience has been that a superior nine hole course can do that, while at the same time, attract more people to invest in property in the area, in effect, strengthening the "captive market".

There is little reliable market data on outstanding nine hole courses because there are really so few of them around. The bias against anything less than eighteen hole courses, like most biases, has some basis in experience. The vast majority of nine hole courses are very low budget compromises. Not many people have experienced really good nine holers, but exposed to one and they'll surprise themselves at how quickly their bias evaporates.  

[Tony Ristola]

One of the courses I grew up playing was 5500 yards, 9-holes, par 35.

Losing 500 yards wouldn't be a big deal. The only problem with 9-holes of that length is it got repetitive. Understanding you could build 9 regulation holes...I think I'd opt for 18 holes full of fun and variety. They can get a full length test down the road?

Sounds like a fun challenge.

[Kalen Braley]

One of the courses I grew up playing was 5500 yards, 9-holes, par 35.

Losing 500 yards wouldn't be a big deal. The only problem with 9-holes of that length is it got repetitive. Understanding you could build 9 regulation holes...I think I'd opt for 18 holes full of fun and variety. They can get a full length test down the road?

Sounds like a fun challenge.

Wow 5500 yard 9 holer...talk about your tiger track.    

[Mike_DeVries]

Check out http://www.golfcourseindustry.com/news/news.asp?ID=3235 for an alternative 5-hole starter course at a family run golf course south of Cleveland.

[Jason Topp]

I keep thinking about some of the resorts near Brainerd, MN - which are precisely the type of resorts you are discussing.

Maddens:

They have a big course (The Classic) and two older, basic, short 18 hole courses (probably 6000 from the tips).  It would be interesting to find out how busy the smaller courses are and how satisfied the customers are.  

My suspicion is that the smaller courses get a lot of play.  They surround the resort


Grand View Lodge

Has 3 big courses affiliated with it (Pines, Preserve and Deacon's Lodge) as well as a par three course.  I'm not sure how busy the par three course is or its quality.  My suspicion is that it is open for free play.

 

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