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Tom Huckaby

Love of the Game?
« on: April 27, 2007, 02:16:46 PM »
The battle royale of the geniuses in the Quote of the Day thread got me to thinking... from all I read and from all I can tell, Bruce Lietzke really has no deep love for the game of golf, but just does it enough to keep the lifestyle to which he's become accustomed.  It's work to him.

I've also read about Jack Nicklaus that he'd never just go play a few holes for the fun of it... it's the COMPETITION he loved, and golf was just the one thing he could best compete at....

So thus this question:  I'd assume most of us if not all of us in here do love the game itself, in one form or another.  Perhaps you love the architecture of its venues more than the playing, but still, it's GOLF that gets you going, and you would either play it or study it as much as you can... it's a passion, in other words.

Are there any here who treat it as Nicklaus or Lietzke, that is, it's either a necessary evil or another means to an end?

And please understand there's absolutely nothing wrong with treating golf that way... in fact in the end it may be way more healthy to do so... which of course is a separate question.

Me, I live and die for playing the game, which sucks given how infrequently I actually get to do so.  It is a passion for sure.

I'm just curious as to how this group thinks....


Mark Bourgeois

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 02:21:36 PM »
What some call a "job" and others call a "passion," most see as a therapeutic tool for obsessive-compulsives...

Tom Huckaby

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 02:26:33 PM »
What some call a "job" and others call a "passion," most see as a therapeutic tool for obsessive-compulsives...

Well said!

So for must of us here it must be that therapeutic tool, which of course we'll disguise as / call a passion.

Just curious how many here, if any, do see it as a job or other means to an end.  Likely few if any, or they wouldn't be posting here.  But perhaps you know of people who treat it that way?  That to me is fascinating....
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 02:27:09 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Phil Benedict

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 03:06:54 PM »
Huck,

I look forward to playing golf as much as anything I do.  On the other hand, after playing 3 or 4 days in a row I tend to want a break.  If I had the talent to be a tour pro, I probably wouldn't have the discipline to put in the hours practicing that it takes to stay on tour.  I'd get bored.

I played at Bay Hill last year and one of the caddies said that Arnie plays 6 out of 7 days when he's in town.  There's a guy who loves the game.

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 04:32:31 PM »
I'd play every day of my life if I could...never been good, probably never will be good, but just love the venues, the cameraderie (sp?) with playing partners, and the personal challenge to do my best.

Passion is the #1 word I'd use to describe my attachment to the game...my wife on the other hand would call it obsession. I'd say that's splitting hairs...  :o
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 06:00:24 PM »
It occured to me some time ago that:

1. When I play as well as I possibly can, I cannot WAIT to get back to the golf course as soon as possible to repeat the feat.

2. When I play as badly as I possibly can (and, boy, can that be BAD!), I cannot wait to get back to the golf course to prove to myself that I can actually play this game.

Either way, golf is my drug of choice. I went cold-turkey once for about five years and it wasn't pretty. Regular fixes about twice a month minimum seems to be my perfect personal prescription.

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 06:22:28 PM »
I used to work summers when I was in college at private courses where the pros would never play a hole for several months, just give lessons, run the pro shop and go home. I could never figure it out because as soon as my shift was over I was out on the course. I still can't wait for retirement when I can golf at least five days a week.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 06:40:57 PM »
Martin,

I feel the same way when playing 9 holes--if you play well, you want to play 18; if you play poorly, you want to play 18 so you can redeem yourself on the back 9.  Either way, you want to play more.  

Tom,

To me, it's the combination of playing golf and enjoying interesting courses that inspires me.  I don't have that much interest in seeing a great course without playing it (with some exceptions), nor do I have that much interest in playing just any old course (especially now that I have a family and don't play much).  Neither is sufficient without the other.  

« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 06:48:27 PM by Tim Pitner »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 06:44:14 PM »
Tom H. -

I recall a passage in Michael Bamberger's "To the Linksland" where he quotes Peter Teravainien saying he could no longer play golf for fun. Golf had become a job, a profession and a means for providing for himself and his family.

I would guess that is (and frankly has to be) the attitude for most professional golfers, whether they have a deep love for the game or not.  

It is hard to imagine anyone could make a viable career for themselves on a pro tour unless they cared passionately enough about the game at some point to spend the time required to develop their skills. However, the reality of life as a pro golfer (the travel, the required practice time, the time away from your family, the competitive nature of the business, etc.) intrudes at some point. Pro golfers realize they have a window of 10-15 years to succeed.  If they don't adopt a business-like attitude  and make the most of their opportunities, time will pass them by very quickly.

Have you been reading any of the "Backspin" columns in Golf World magazine lately? This is a "where are they now" column that follows up on one-time winners and phenoms on the Tour from 20-30 years ago.  It is interesting to see how the game of golf has treated some of them over the years. It has not always  been pretty.

As the saying goes, "be careful what you wish for, it might come true someday."

DT    



       

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 07:54:57 PM »
Meditative, zen experience. Why mess it up with score keeping?  

I was playing league the other night, and while waiting to putt, my mind and eyes wandered up....up...up a tall Linden tree where I noticed a ball stuck in a crotch. That made my whole evening.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 08:18:58 PM »
I rermember hearing an inteview with Lee Trevino who said, "I just can't wait for the sun to come up so I can go play."  

Arnie said that he goes to the office until noon then he can't stand it anymore so he heads out to play.

I have played 36 holes a day for the last six days and have two more days to go until I go home.  I wish I could stay another week.

Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 09:33:03 PM »
Bill G - Your reflections to baseball are mine to golf.  My mom had me on the course at four years old.  I'd hit the ball and run after it as fast as I could, to hit it again.  And I remember doing just that.  I also remember hitting a brassie into the hole at Wellesley Country Club #2 hole at about 8 years old with nobody around, and there was no commercial with someone coming out to say "good shot".

My reflections equal the love of the game !

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 09:56:42 PM »
I pretty much have no desire to play "just for the fun of it".  If it's a tournament I'll play or if I am preparing for a tournament I may play 5 or 6 holes after hitting balls.

I'd rather hit balls than play and I am sure that one (of the many) reasons I never really improved since I was 17 or 18 was due to the fact that I couldn't just love "Playing" the game :(


I am happy playing a role in the game--rules official, owner/operator of a course, volunteer for junior events and such but I have never been able to just go play for "fun" (yet).

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2007, 12:48:22 AM »
Chris:

We are just opposites.  You couldn't pay me enough money to hit balls for an hour, but if I can play a few holes in the evening, I'm there.  

I am all about hitting the shot which is called for at the moment, and for some bizarre reason I think that I should be able to do it without practicing.  When I go to a great course I am likely to make pars and birdies on all the most difficult and most interesting holes, and ruin my medal round with a double bogey on the "letdown" hole.

I can't imagine retiring and playing golf every day, though.  As much as I love to play, I can only play so many times per year before I start getting frustrated or bored with it.


Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 01:22:46 AM »
I am not an addicted to the game... but I am obsessed.

I can practice for hours or play a few holes alone  with two or three balls and have a wonderful time. I always play Hogan and Snead in my solo rounds and have yet to lose to either of them.

Perhaps it is because I am fortunate enough to play on some of the most beautiful grounds for golf that exist, but I felt this way some centuries ago, when playing on a cow pasture in Beit Bridge, Rhodesia. No grass, sand greens and tees that would not receive a wooden tee because the soil was so tough you would need a hammer to get the thing to stay in the ground.

It is beyond my comprehension that anyone, jaded pro or amateur, could not have one's soul lifted by bringing off the perfect shot.


Bob

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2007, 01:48:22 AM »
Bob,

Well said, and no need to tell us who won the Wolf Game between you and those two other characters.

It is about the next shot, seeing if you can do it like you want to or should do.  Doesn't really matter where, each shot has to be made, as there are no free shots in golf, no matter how "easy" the course is.

However, the Love of the Game also involves sharing the passion with others, in my case, my two sons.  It is a game that we still can play together and yes, a game where I am still the undefeated champ.

Expand this to playing the game with friends, and it is truly (thanks Mr. Simper) an experience that brings you back for more.

That being said, I do miss the days of the solitude round ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Andy Troeger

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2007, 12:30:35 AM »
I do love the game and enjoy being involved with it in different capacities, such as looking at golf courses or coaching high schoolers.

I absolutely cannot practice alone for more than about 30 minutes except under the rare occasion when I muster an hour. I'd much rather go play and try to fix things that way. I'll go hit a small bucket a couple times a month usually to try to get a little repetition. I rarely hit balls before a round, and it does not in the slightest affect my score.

I also burned myself out in high school playing too much competitive golf. I've not played an individual medal play tournament since, and I don't miss it one bit. I have much more fun just enjoying the game, golf courses, and friendships made through the game. I try not to take golf or myself too seriously anymore  ;D

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2007, 08:58:39 AM »
Huck:

Scott Hoch once found himself in a locker room with some tour neophyte who "just couldn't wait" to get back out to play the next day. Hock looked at him in bewilderment and said: "You actually like this game?"

I think the tour pros both play and approach golf in many, many different ways than the rest of us.


Tom Huckaby

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2007, 10:22:24 AM »
Great stuff one and all - many thanks.

I believe I'm with Mr. Huntley in an this game being an obssession... but I am starting to understand a bit better that it certainly doesn't HAVE to be that way.

Very cool.  Weird topic, I know.


John Keenan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2007, 10:33:24 AM »
On love of the game I would have to echo Mr.. Benham comments about playing with your son. Great opportunity for some interesting conversations and discussions. For those that have had the experience I am sure you are well aware for those who sons are small I strongly suggest introducing them to the game it is a great thing to share.

On the issues of the pros enjoying the game, I remember reading an interview with Jackie Burke in a Golf or Golf Digest while I was traveling where he commented on the fact that he felt pros today do not have fun or enjoy golf. He noted their use of the phrase "the office" when talking about playing. May well be the difference between making a living and doing something for the pure fun of it.

I have always felt that some on the Champion Tour seem to truly enjoy playing such as Alan Doyle Dana Quigley Jim Thorpe to name 3. It appears both on TV and in person that these men enjoy what they are doing. Not sure that is a prevalent on the Big tour.

The things a man has heard and seen are threads of life, and if he pulls them carefully from the confused distaff of memory, any who will can weave them into whatever garments of belief please them best.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2007, 10:37:03 AM »
Has anyone else noted that getting "bored" with the game is much more common among good players than among the guys with 9 to 20 handicaps?

Some of us hackers will get frustrated and quit, but bored? NEVER!

I've known a few guys who could shoot around par without any difficulty, but who got little pleasure out of playing.

Maybe if it's too easy, people lose interest.

Maybe those who think rolling back technology would drive people away from the game have it exactly backwards.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Ed_Baker

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2007, 01:36:35 PM »
I'm still in love with the game,it's history,it's venues, but most importantly the golfers that have become friends over the years. Some pretty terrific people play this game. My ability to play the game is rapidly diminishing but my zeal for getting out there is still as strong as it was when I could play pretty well.

Bill Dow,

I'm impressed, you knocked it on # 2 at Wellesley when you were 8 years old, wow !!! To this day that is still a great hole, I played at Wellesley last summer and blasted a 5 wood at the green from the "saddle" in the fairway... much to my disappointment it was SHORT and I scrambled pretty well for a 6. ;D. I always loved the contrast of walking off the second green at Wellesley with a sigh of relief and then being faced with trying to pull the right club on the little drop shot par 3 immediatly following, the original 9 at Wellesley is very good, lots of variety.

Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2007, 02:29:18 PM »
First of all, for me personally, I enjoy it all - playing a few holes solo and enjoying nature and the meditative qualities of quietly interacting with a beautiful golf course, hole by hole and shot by shot; spending time with my wife while playing a little never-ending match; getting a bit more competitive with a few buddies in a four-ball; and playing in a more serious tournament atmosphere under real pressure.  I've also met a lot of great people playing golf and those relationships (and making new ones) continue to be fostered by the golf course.  Professionally I also enjoy my little role as a part of the game for others by (hopefully) making it a little more fun for them.

I've learned to love and appreciate all of the above - and more - and since the game is what provides me the platform to do all these things, and is what I first fell in love with, for me it always comes down to a love for the game.  It's already given me more than I could have asked for, and while the competition is an enjoyable part of it, I'd say it's just one piece of the bigger puzzle.  

Nicklaus may say he's never inclined to just go play a few holes "for the fun of it," but I'd bet the love of the game is what drove him initially and slowly waned as the pursuit of greater tournament achievements overtook it.  It makes me wonder if his golf architecture business is due to a love for the game and the venues at which its played or is that also motivated by a competitive spirit, ie to build the best/most courses in his eyes?

Speaking to the point of the best players being most susceptible to becoming bored by golf, I'd say it's due to an early focus on the competitive nature of it and treating it like work.  Grace Park once told me while she was in college that she frequently got burned out by it all, and that pursuit of becoming the best competitive golfer she could be was what dictated so much of her life from an early age.  

Golf is a diversion for many of us from the labors of life, but when it becomes the labor itself, people in that situation often naturally seek out other avenues for pure enjoyment and relaxation.  In Jack's case, he always seemed to have a million other hobbies.  It's got to be hard to have golf as a hobby when it's also one's primary labor, but it no doubt works for a lot of us who are also employed in some aspect of the industry.  Why does it work for some of us and not others?  That's my question.

Club professionals often get burned out on it simply by working so many hours, so that when they do get some free time, the golf course seems to be the least attractive place at which to spend it.  It can snowball from there since one's game typically goes way downhill from lack of playing and practicing, and eventually a lot of them lose interest and get to the point of hardly ever playing at all.  Other hobbies pop up in its old place.

Touring professionals spend so much time on the practice range and competing that I think a similar thing happens, and they devote all of their leisure time to other hobbies as well.  I think in Arnie's case, he's come full circle to the point where he doesn't compete much any more, and so he's fallen in love with leisure golf all over again.  I'd be interested in knowing how much he played "for the fun of it" back in his heyday.

I'm not sure how it works for golf course architects, but since a lot of time is spent on courses under construction and/or in the office, actually playing golf I'd assume is easier to keep as a hobby than it is for superintendents, club professionals, and touring professionals.  I'd be interested to know if Tom or any of the other architects here know of architects who become similarly burned out and as a result rarely play for fun.

For me, I know I was slowly heading in the direction of being burned out on playing because I was simply working too much to keep playing appealing, but a few things changed that: first of all the "burnout factor" had an uphill battle, as I was crazy obsessed with the game to begin with; secondly I met my wife on the course and it's something we can do together - if she didn't play, I'd play much less myself; thirdly I became more and more interested in architecture, so it was easier for me to just go out and explore the course from a different perspective than someone always trying to better their score.  Of those three, I think the fact that my wife plays is the main thing that keeps me on the course so much, and a negative impact on family time is what pulls so many club professionals away from playing.

Sorry to Huck to rant on and on and bring up other points, but he posed a thought-provoking question and so that's what he gets!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 02:31:35 PM by Brian_Sleeman »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2007, 04:01:11 PM »
Brian - that's great stuff by me.

Now for a little kicker... I myself was once turned off from the game... too much competitive play meant burnout and no desire to do that any more.  BUT... I never was so burned out I had no desire to play AT ALL... I just didn't want to grind out competitive scores.

So I wonder if that's what Feherty meant... your example of Arnie coming back around speaks volumes to me.

BTW, it certainly makes a hell of a lot of sense when one's around golf constantly to want to spend his leisure time away from it.  I hadn't thought of this that way at all.

Very interesting... to me anyway!  ;D

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Love of the Game?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2007, 04:24:38 PM »
Huck:

Scott Hoch once found himself in a locker room with some tour neophyte who "just couldn't wait" to get back out to play the next day. Hock looked at him in bewilderment and said: "You actually like this game?"

I think the tour pros both play and approach golf in many, many different ways than the rest of us.


That Hoch quote doesn't surprise me at all.  I always thought he looked dour and miserable on the course regardless of his score.  This explains it.  Too bad for him.

Count me in as someone who loves the game.  Fortunately, I get to play a fair amount of competitive golf.  I like the test that tournaments or matches present.  I enjoy the competition, as well as the stress, and nervousness that I get during those events.  While I don't play great all the time, the times where I do manage to play well when the heat is on is worth every minute.  With work and family obligations, I don't play as much "social" golf as I'd like.  The majority of my golf is tournament play.  

Unlike a lot of guys, I also love to practice.  I could spend hours hitting balls, or practicing the short game.  It doesn't get boring to me.  During the summer, I like getting out late just to play a few holes or nine holes, even by myself.

I'm one that could play or practice almost everyday.  If I ever won the lottery, you'd be able to find me easily.  My wife always jokes that she can't believe I could go to the course everyday.  I would if I could. ;D
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 04:26:31 PM by JSlonis »

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