Are very severe, undulating greens appropriate for high level tournament play?

[Sean Leary]

Or are they best suited for member, and club play, where it is mostly match play.  I am not talking about tilted greens (ala 5, 12, and 15 at Merion discussed recently) that are difficult to find suitable hole locations on, or typical Fazio-type, with big seperate tier sections, but more of the types of  "busy" greens you see like at Stone Eagle or Ballyneal for those who have played them.  

Obviously ANGC has some greens that may fall into this catagory, but I can't think of any other "championship" venues that you see them on.  I am curious to hear what Sully, Jamie Slonis etc, and the other top level amateurs think about playing their "real tournament type golf" on these types of greens, (not their casual rounds). Thoughts?

[JESII]

Sean,


You seem to imply that in high level tournament play there is less familiarity and more random result kind of stuff going on than with member play, have I read that right?

If I have, and that is the reason, or the basis, for tournament courses to have more tame or less wild greens I would disagree.

I believe preparation is an extremely important aspect of tournament golf. Preparation of your game, and your mindset, but just as importantly the player needs to understand the course enough to have a Plan B...what happens if I hit it over here when I was trying to hit it over there...those sort of decisions...

In that light, I think big undulating greens are a good way to distinguish between players and there preparation.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean,

It's not the undulating greens in and of themselves.

It's the speed at which the undulating greens are maintained.

Winged Foot West's greens are anything but flat.
At least, as of today, they're not, with the exception of # 10 which was flattened years ago, but, still remains challenging.

[Sean Leary]

Pat and JES,

I have not seen Winged Foot, but I don't think the kind of undulation I am thinking about is what Winged Foot has.  I haven't played enough back East to give you an example, except maybe like #2 at PV, but on a high percentage of all the holes, and maybe even bigger humps and bumps. Think Sitwell Park.

Sully, I don't think that is the reason or basis why, but I don't think a lot of older championship courses were built with these types of green. The examples I gave are more of the stuff being built by the archies today.

Obviously, TOC has what I am talking, but because it is a links, I am sort of discounting that one. I am think more American style golf courses, whatever that means...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean,

Have you noticed that the announcers on TV don't seem to want anyone other than Tiger to win ?

That there's a predisposition on their part, as if any other winner isn't worthy.

They want predictability because it equates to ratings and ratings equate to dollars.

Sitwell Park's green/s aren't going to promote predictability.

[Jeff Doerr]

Sean,

I sure hope we continue to see greens being built that offer great challenges. Nothing is worse than a course where the only option the super has to toughen it up is to find all of the locations right on the edges of the green. One of the great viewing joys for me is watching a pro execute a precise iron shot to the one place where he can get it close and then watching the ball feed wonderfully to the hole. On a personal level. I love the chip or lag that requires a great amount of imagination. I once lagged a 70 footer with huge multiple breaks to about 2 feet at Rustic for a great par save. Great stuff and a big part of what brings me back again and again!