O/T: Anyone else having trouble getting 3 wood airborne?

[Steve Pozaric]

I would suggest finding a Ping Ti3 (or the Tec).  Big enough to use off the tee and out of the rough and I have no problem getting it airborne.  Plus, with the Ping hozels, you can find them open.  Oldest club in my bag.  Oddly enough, could never find a Ping Tisi or Tec driver I liked.

[David Lott]

take some lessons

[Darren deMaille]

Cary sounds to me like it is more the archer than the arrow, try swinging a little more vertical than around.  a steeper aproach will help with contact.  also try and play cut shots, this will help you hit it higher.  

[A.G._Crockett]

I guess I don't understand the advice to get a new shaft that will bend more so it adds more loft to your club. Why don't you get a new clubhead with slightly more loft and use the same shaft?

Dr. Logic
 

I think the technology wonks would answer this by referencing spin rates, which would be higher with the additional loft relative to the shaft change.  That in turn would make the relative carry and roll numbers come out differently.  The optimal combination would yield the most distance; an incorrect loft loft reduces total distance.  That's why a wedge loft with a driver shaft wouldn't go very far...

That said, I'll predict that within 5 years, and maybe much sooner, there will not be a single driver on tour with a single digit loft.  The optimal launch combinations, even for those guys are coming toward 10+ degrees and more.  The guy who won last week was using 11.5, I think.  They want a high launch angle with as little spin as possible.

Now reference TEPaul's long-time suggestion that the key to distance restrictions will be minimum spin rates off the driver, with which I wholeheartedly agree.

[Brian Noser]

I am expirementing with the no 3 wood theroy. I now carry a 17* hybrid and a 1 iron. This could all change if I learn to hit the hybrid from the tee then a 60* wedge comes in the bag.

I was fitted for a driver last week and it was a 9.5. I was told that if you have the ball speed and correct spin you can launch as high as 17* and be ok. I was launching at 16.5 with a spin of around 2400 and this was optimal for me with carry according to the launch moniter  anywhere from 280-300. It is crazy how high they want you to hit it..

[Garland Bayley]

I guess I don't understand the advice to get a new shaft that will bend more so it adds more loft to your club. Why don't you get a new clubhead with slightly more loft and use the same shaft?

Dr. Logic
 

I think the technology wonks would answer this by referencing spin rates, which would be higher with the additional loft relative to the shaft change.  That in turn would make the relative carry and roll numbers come out differently.  The optimal combination would yield the most distance; an incorrect loft loft reduces total distance.  That's why a wedge loft with a driver shaft wouldn't go very far...

That said, I'll predict that within 5 years, and maybe much sooner, there will not be a single driver on tour with a single digit loft.  The optimal launch combinations, even for those guys are coming toward 10+ degrees and more.  The guy who won last week was using 11.5, I think.  They want a high launch angle with as little spin as possible.

Now reference TEPaul's long-time suggestion that the key to distance restrictions will be minimum spin rates off the driver, with which I wholeheartedly agree.

                           

[JWL]

Don't you just love it when a bunch of gca's and budding gca's start giving advice on how to "play" golf.

(tongue firmly planted in cheek as I ROTFLMAO)

especially you bowman!

[Tom Huckaby]

Shivas - that's all well and good for you huge hitters... hell yes, carrying a 3wood does seem wholly superfluous for you... but for us normal guys, keep in mind we still need a 3wood from time to time to reach par fours, particularly into the wind.  And no, we're not gonna lay up on those very often.

Methinks Cary is closer to distance to us than to you... from what I read anyway.  If that's the case, then dump the 3wood is not valid advice.

TH

[Brian Noser]

every time I am in the go or no go zone I butcher it. That was one of the reasons for droping the 3 wood I have it in my head that I cant hit it. Agreed that is why It seems to be working. Now I just need to figure out how to hit the hybrid off the tee and drop the 1 iron and PIck up a 60*. I think I am one of the few that does not carry one.

[Kalen Braley]

I have no trouble getting my 3 wood airborne.  Its a simple 4 step process:

1)  Address ball with 3 wood and take a few Sergio waggles.
2)  Swing mightly at the ball with the 3 wood.
3)  Watch the topped worm burner run 140 yards along the ground and eventually end up in a creek or bunker.
4)  Fling the 3 wood 50 yards down the fairway while ranting and cursing with playing partners looking on in absolute horror!!

Its pretty simple...

[rjsimper]

Of the suggestions here, the ones I most agree with are

1 - Get enough loft - some people hit 13 degree 3 woods, some hit 16 degree 3 woods....if with your best strike these dont go airborne enough, go to a 4 or 5 wood.  A good friend of mine (and a very good player) uses only a 5 wood.

2 - Hit down on the ball.  While you give up distance and impart more spin on the ball, it will help you make better and more consistent contact.  One you establish the muscle memory for good contact, and the commensurate confidence in the club, you can start working on more of a sweep.  I have 2 3-wood swings - the "hit it crisp and advance it at all costs" swing, and the all-or-nothing driver-style swing that brings tops into play (but goes 30 yards farther if I catch it)

[cary lichtenstein]

I have no trouble getting my 3 wood airborne.  Its a simple 4 step process:

1)  Address ball with 3 wood and take a few Sergio waggles.
2)  Swing mightly at the ball with the 3 wood.
3)  Watch the topped worm burner run 140 yards along the ground and eventually end up in a creek or bunker.
4)  Fling the 3 wood 50 yards down the fairway while ranting and cursing with playing partners looking on in absolute horror!!

Its pretty simple...

Very cute

I switched from a 13 degree to a 16 degree at the recommendation of my club maker. On a lie that sitts up in the rough, no problem. In the fairway, it is top city.

So he switched the shaft to one with a softer tip, but I have no clue where the ball is going, could go either right or left.

The tip feels to whippy to me. I don't have any trouble with my driver, or any other clubs. I'm guessing it must be something inconsistent in my swing that has caused me to loose confidence in it.

I'm think of making a 5 wood with a 4 wood length. Anyone try that with any success?

[rjsimper]

Cary -
Loft is the one area where equipment will make a profound difference.  Don't waste your time getting caught up with tip flex, kick point, etc - its the Indian.  Sure the bow and arrow can help or hurt, but at base, it's up to your swing.  I could hand you a steel shafted persimmon 3 wood and if you improve your swing path through the ball I promise you that you will get it airborne.  If you can get your driver airborne and your 4 iron airborne, than you can get your 3 wood airborne.  If you can dodge a wrench then you can dodge a ball.

[Garland Bayley]

Ryan,

Anyone who has had success in the past with a 13 degree 3 wood isn't a bad indian. As I recall Cary is like a 3 handicap. My guess is he is simply getting older and his swing speed is slowing down. IMHO increased loft is the way. IMHO shaft flex is the biggest bunch of hooey around. If they make all kind of flexes, they can tell you your flex is wrong and sell you a different flex. It's all marketing! The simplest way to increase effective loft is to get a club head with higher loft. Why try a dozen shafts to get the same effect. NOTE: The loft on the club is easily measured and verified, the flex on the shaft is not! There is no standard of shaft flexes either. Hooey Hooey Hooey!
 

[Sean Leary]

Cary -
Loft is the one area where equipment will make a profound difference.  Don't waste your time getting caught up with tip flex, kick point, etc - its the Indian.  Sure the bow and arrow can help or hurt, but at base, it's up to your swing.  I could hand you a steel shafted persimmon 3 wood and if you improve your swing path through the ball I promise you that you will get it airborne.  If you can get your driver airborne and your 4 iron airborne, than you can get your 3 wood airborne.  If you can dodge a wrench then you can dodge a ball.

Ryan,

Since you are the expert on this stuff, what would you recommend if someone hits their driver a ton but consistantly off the planet right?  How would you fix that?

[Brian Noser]

Garland I totally disagree with you on the shaft. The shaft is the Engine of the golf club. Yes there are different Flexs and yes different manufactures have different stiffs and regulars. Like I said previously when I got fitted for the driver I hit the same loft head with about 10 different shafts from different companys with 10 different results. you can change the shaft and significantly change how the club head will play. I say No Hooey....

Sean is your Callaway a draw bias??

[Garland Bayley]

Garland I totally disagree with you on the shaft. The shaft is the Engine of the golf club. Yes there are different Flexs and yes different manufactures have different stiffs and regulars. Like I said previously when I got fitted for the driver I hit the same loft head with about 10 different shafts from different companys with 10 different results. you can change the shaft and significantly change how the club head will play. I say No Hooey....

Sean is your Callaway a draw bias??

Brain,

And you couldn't put 10 different club heads on the same shaft and not get 10 different results?  

The difference of course being that you can actually measure the loft and draw/fade bias of the club head. It is not the voodoo the shaft is.
Speaking off voodoo, that's all marketing too.  

[rjsimper]

Cary -
Loft is the one area where equipment will make a profound difference.  Don't waste your time getting caught up with tip flex, kick point, etc - its the Indian.  Sure the bow and arrow can help or hurt, but at base, it's up to your swing.  I could hand you a steel shafted persimmon 3 wood and if you improve your swing path through the ball I promise you that you will get it airborne.  If you can get your driver airborne and your 4 iron airborne, than you can get your 3 wood airborne.  If you can dodge a wrench then you can dodge a ball.

Ryan,

Since you are the expert on this stuff, what would you recommend if someone hits their driver a ton but consistantly off the planet right?  How would you fix that?

Get a 13 degree 3 wood that you like

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I recieved my new 3 wood from the Nike guys yesterday with that new Epic shaft...I am old school and still like a steel shaft in my 3 wood.....wonderful feeling shaft..they are really onto something with that technology..I was very impressed and put the new weapon staright into play for this weeks event.
I usually do not put a club into play for at least a month, so I really am impressed.
As somone said earlier, nowadys it is all in the shaft, about 75% of your results are shaft oriented, that has been proven to be time and time again at the research centre..

[Sean Leary]

Garland I totally disagree with you on the shaft. The shaft is the Engine of the golf club. Yes there are different Flexs and yes different manufactures have different stiffs and regulars. Like I said previously when I got fitted for the driver I hit the same loft head with about 10 different shafts from different companys with 10 different results. you can change the shaft and significantly change how the club head will play. I say No Hooey....

Sean is your Callaway a draw bias??

Yessir. Helps with my reverse pivot over the top chop.

[Garland Bayley]

I recieved my new 3 wood from the Nike guys yesterday with that new Epic shaft...I am old school and still like a steel shaft in my 3 wood.....wonderful feeling shaft..they are really onto something with that technology..I was very impressed and put the new weapon staright into play for this weeks event.
I usually do not put a club into play for at least a month, so I really am impressed.
As somone said earlier, nowadys it is all in the shaft, about 75% of your results are shaft oriented, that has been proven to be time and time again at the research centre..

Is there a reference to this alleged proof?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

GB
Get on a launch monitor with somebody who knows the technology and as it said in Brian's piece all will be revealed..same haed with different shafts resulting in totally different ball flights/yardages/carry/spin/launch all the stuff that matters.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

Tommy Armour is coming out with a 3-wood with the characteristics (shaft length/head size) of a rescue club, noting that the average 3-wood head is larger than a driver's head a few years ago.  We'll see how the marketing of that goes...

[Garland Bayley]

GB
Get on a launch monitor with somebody who knows the technology and as it said in Brian's piece all will be revealed..same haed with different shafts resulting in totally different ball flights/yardages/carry/spin/launch all the stuff that matters.

And this couldn't be done by putting different heads on the same shaft?  

I have no doubt that shafts change all this. However, as I said before, there are no standards for shafts. There is much less predictabilty to what a change in shaft will do versus a change in clubhead. If I remember Tom Wishon correctly, he says that changing the kick point on the shaft has little chance being observed by the user on the course. He says you need to make changes that you can actually observe for it to have any meaningful effect on your game.

[Ken Moum]

Tommy Armour is coming out with a 3-wood with the characteristics (shaft length/head size) of a rescue club, noting that the average 3-wood head is larger than a driver's head a few years ago.  We'll see how the marketing of that goes...

Nickent already has that. I have a Nickent Ironwood in 3fw, that is 15* head size like an old-school three wood, and 41" shaft.

It's not magic, but it does get the ball in the air better than any other similarly lofted club I own. It hits the ball at least as high, perhaps a touch higher than my Nickent 3h, which is 20*

Ken

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