[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I know there was another thread up here recently on this very subject, but one course that was overlooked was Dove Valley.

What's the general impression of this course?  Worth playing?  

I'm staying in Carefree, and just played Legend Trail and am playing Desert Forest on Wednesday.  I've played Boulders (North) and Talking Stick (South) and Troon North is all booked.  Is Dove Valley, my best option at this point, or is there somewhere closed by that's worth playing instead?  

How far is Vista Verde from Carefree?

[John Foley]

WeKoPa!!! It's a drive, but well worth it.

[Tony Petersen]

Wayne -

We Ko Pa is a great idea, but Vista Verde is closer to Carefree and a SOLID design. No houses, interesting routing, GREAT green complexes (make sure you don't end up on the wrong side of the pin) and sooooo quiet. You just head S. on Pima, E. on Dynamite (past Estancia, Troon North & Golf Club at Scottsdale). It's about 2 miles E. of Golf Club Scottsdale on your left. Keep your eyes open for the 2 small real estate size signs that say "Vista Verde." Turn left onto the gravel road and you're there. No f&b to speak of, so make sure you stock up. Check out www.golfnow.com for the best rates. Usually around $60 per person riding.

[Andy Troeger]

I agree with Tony...and John!

Vista Verde is quite a bit closer and much less expensive. We-Ko-Pa Saguaro is my favorite course in the area, however, including Desert Forest. Vista Verde is darn close behind, however. You certainly won't go wrong at either place.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Desert Forest is as good as it gets.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Desert Forest is as good as it gets.

I suspect it is!  Very much looking forward to playing it, after seeing it and hearing so much about it on this site!

And, thanks for the insight everyone!

[Andy Troeger]

Desert Forest is as good as it gets.

Wayne,
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on DF after you've played. Quite frankly (and with absolutely no offense to Mr. Bernhardt) comments like these baffle me as the narrow playing corridors did not make a big fan out of me on my one chance to play it. Maybe it would grow on me if I had the chance to play it more often. I'm not saying DF is not a fine golf course as it does have fantastic greens and green complexes, and a few world class holes such as #7, but to be honest there are a few in the area I'd rather play again.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Dove Valley Ranch by RTJ2 doesn't come close to Vista Verde or possibly Saguaro at WeKoPa. Desert Forest is the creme de la creme in Arizona.

For discounted rates at VV, see www.golfnow.com

[Matt_Ward]

For public golf options -- it's Vista Verde (just five miles down Dynamite from Troon North) -- very close to where you will be -- very inexpensive (a rarity in the Valley of the Sun) and a superb Ken Kavanaugh design. No houses for now and the connection to the desert landscape is quite compelling.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Desert Forrest is so great that you need to find a way to play there a second time.  A second round gives you a better feel for your play.  There is a lot of subtle ground movement that is easy to miss because of the cool desert surrounds.  There is a tendency for putts to be influenced by the nearby mountains.

[John Kavanaugh]

Desert Forrest is so great that you need to find a way to play there a second time.  There is a tendency for putts to be influenced by the nearby mountains.

That is an Arizona first.  How did the architect pull that one off.

[Andy Troeger]

Desert Forrest is so great that you need to find a way to play there a second time.  A second round gives you a better feel for your play.  There is a lot of subtle ground movement that is easy to miss because of the cool desert surrounds.  There is a tendency for putts to be influenced by the nearby mountains.

Robert,
I kind of have to agree with John. There are cool desert surrounds on We-Ko-Pa, Vista Verde, Estancia, etc.

I'm not questioning the greens and the subtle movement you mention, there's some cool stuff out there and I do get that...but how do you defend 20 yard wide fairways (sometimes crowned) with desert on both sides that 9 times out of 10 will lead to a chip out, unplayable lie, or lost ball?

Not so much meaning to be critical...I just don't understand why its considered the best in the area by a group that often dislikes "penal" architecture.

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