News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
My Weekend in San Diego
« on: April 22, 2007, 12:34:54 AM »
Thursday: Barona Creek. The fact that it's a wonderful course has already been discussed here at great length. More to the point of "great length" (get it?) is the fact that at least ten new back tees have been added for the Nationwide Tour Championship this fall. The holes are 2, 4, 5, 6, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, and 18 with probably 350 yards being added. The biggest change is on #4: into any kind of wind, the left fairway will be difficult for some players to reach, and carrying the bunkers will be extremely tough. Everything about the course was presented beautifully. There is talk of some fairways being narrowed for the tournament but let's hope that doesn't happen.

Friday: San Diego Country Club. I received a surprise invite and I was very lucky to play 27 holes there. I haven't played the course since 1995. A Cary Bickler renovation about four years ago lengthened a number of holes and added seven new fairway bunkers (5, 7, 9, 10, 15, 16, 17, I think). They're all shallow and I'm not sure they were necessary, to be honest. The holes most affected by new tees are #3 at 245 yards, #8 nearly 570, #16 over 600, and #18 at 460. Things around the greens look great and the bunkers still have their huge sandy faces reminiscent of Southern Hills. The property has a lot of small (10-15 foot tall) trees close together, in addition to the large eucalipti. It's very common to have an impeded swing on shots from the rough. I think many of those trees will stay small but there will be some foliage issues if they grow large. Overall the course remains a fantastic experience, and getting into the Pacific Coast Amateur there this summer remains one of my biggest goals.

Saturday: Redhawk. Tommy and Tim, you expressed your dislike for the course, but didn't you see the size of the waterfall on the way in? I mean, it's a big waterfall! I don't see what you guys have against waterfalls. Hydrophobes...

OK. Is it the best course in the San Diego area? Of course not. It's probably not in the top twenty. But it's also not nearly as bad as you said it was. The fairways are very narrow, yes. I wouldn't say the houses are in play unless you hit one very far sideways. The only thing claustrophobic about the course was not the houses - it was those long dark tunnels between a few of the holes. That said, I agree the corridors should have been larger. The fairways had some unnecessary pinch points. Also, most of the holes are in valleys; the sides of the valleys were planted with bushes and the OB stakes were at the bottom of the sides rather than the top. I would suggest that the grass should extend higher up those hillsides.

I generally dislike tiered greens, especially three- and four-tiered greens like Redhawk's. But they played better than I remembered them because there are a lot of small slopes within the tiers that make short shots interesting. Many of the greens are elevated above deep hollows of rough, a feature that is difficult and either repetitive or consistent, depending on your point of view. The greens were spongy, and although they were moderately fast, they were not consistent. Overall the course was in acceptable condition.

Ed, all of the holes with cross hazards are now marked with yardage signs from the tee.

Alas, the putting green has been split into two chipping greens, high and low. You won't lose balls but you might lose interest. A new, non-matching putting green has been constructed next to the cantina (yes, the cantina).

Overall, the course is not unfair. It is tight, probably too tight for the average player, and it's reasonable to fault the course for that. But it's far from the worst course out there, and if you can hit the ball more or less down the fairway, you can certainly enjoy your day out there. If you're really wild off the tee, you're not likely to have fun. But we had a good time, and although I won't strongly suggest it as a place to play, I will attest that it's very possible to enjoy it for 18 holes.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 03:02:43 AM by Matt_Cohn »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 02:40:56 AM »
Matt,
   Thanks for the report. More on Barona please. Did any holes seem similar to you? How was the last par 3? What did you think of #12?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2007, 03:38:26 AM »
Matt,
I've played both Redhawk and Carmel Mountain Ranch when they were both brand new, nary a single house on them. I've also played both of them when they did.

I think these two courses are ironic in that both are designed by the same designer with Mark O'Meara as consulting signatory pro; (back before he was Tiger Wood's best friend) Both courses are fairly easy to get tee times--even if one of them is supposed to be private. Ultimately the golf is O.K., it gets people by in a market which completely mismanaged (golf wise)

Honestly, I think a root canal would be of more interest, but your right, it is golf; it is better then being stuck in a chair with a dental assistant with hairy arms....Yes, you might be right there.

Just don't ever confuse it with being something great.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2007, 03:40:19 AM by Tommy Naccarato »

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 03:36:49 PM »
Matt, glad you had a good time. It sounds like you found things pretty much as we stated, you just overcame the obstacles with your game much better than we could. What did you shoot and which tees did you play at Redhawk? Too bad about the putting green, now I know I will never go back! Next time try the SCGA, Cross Creek, Carlton Oaks, and Maderas and you will have an even better time.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 07:09:38 PM »
Tim,

I love Maderas and wanted to play there but the green fees are now $180 weekday and $210 weekend. Crazy, huh?

More soon.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 11:22:46 AM »
Tim,

One of Matt's main goals in playing Redhawk was to tune up for a qualifying  round on Monday; hope you played well Matt. He is truely an elite golfer, he's got Tour club head speed and is very accurate as well. He drives the ball 280 routinely and playing from the tippity tipps, which measured around 7300 (we played many tees which were not even listed on the card), he had one 3 iron second shot and the rest were 7 iron or less. Redhawk might not be your cup of tea, but where does a golfer of Matt's ability go when he needs to test himself? Trust me, Oceanside muni or National City executive aren't going to cut it. There has always been a place for testing golf courses; Golden Age architects built them too. I'de put Redhawk in the same category as La Purisima, Torrey South, Bethpage Black or Bayonet, they're tough as nails and were meant to be. They do not strive to provide enjoyment to every class of golfer. I guess the main problem is the complete disparity between his game and mine make it very difficult to design a course that will suit us both.

I truely enjoyed playing there. I wouldn't want to do it every day, but an occasional gut check can be fun. The 3 of us hadn't played there in over 10 years and it is amazing how Temecula has grown. There is no sense of isolation on any part of the golf course anymore. But I found the playing corridors more than adequate; pinch points only 15 yards wide were a bit much. My main complaint was the really spongy greens. It seems that since the didn't overseed this year they didn't aerate. They normally punch the greens 4 times a years with small 1/4" holes, so the don't top dress. This seems to have led to a build up of thatch, which if removed would have made the greens much truer.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 11:49:26 AM »

One of Matt's main goals in playing Redhawk was to tune up for a qualifying  round on Monday; hope you played well Matt.


He did ... or at least well enough to qualify ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 12:17:20 PM »
Pete -

I noticed the same thing about the greens - they're truly awful on account of the thatchy spongy grass that they call a putting surface.

I find the course a bit awkward in spots, and far narrower than I remember.  I played it once in about 1997 when the greens were firm and like lightning, and there were no homes to be found.  My how times have changed.

Also, when I played the fairways were absolutely baked and browned out (fun to play, though) which was a strange contrast having the fairways firmer than the greens.

I don't know that I'd put it in the same class as La Purisima (even for difficulty).  LaP I'd recommend to someone in the area...Redhawk I'd recommend a pass in favor of Cross Creek or even Temecula Creek Inn.


Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 12:28:37 PM »
I've not played there in a few years, but it is without question one of the toughest places to play in SCA. So certainly a good decision if playing it as a warm-up for a qualifier.

Of course we have a new Art Hills course going in next door at Pechanga in 2008..... :'(.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 12:33:50 PM »
I'm headed down there for Cinco De Mayo weekend and may be able to get a round in if time/schedule allows.  Where should I play that round??
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 12:34:06 PM by Kalen Braley »

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 12:58:23 PM »
I'm headed down there for Cinco De Mayo weekend and may be able to get a round in if time/schedule allows.  Where should I play that round??

Barona Creek
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 04:11:53 PM »
Barona Creek!

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 04:20:19 PM »
All's I know is that yesterday I played out at this course in this rustic canyon in Moorpark called, Rustic Canyon, and the course is playing in about as good of shape, if not better then one could imagine..

If you were to miss out on Rustic in favor of Barona, yes, then go ahead and check it out. But missing out on Rustic Canyon for Deadhawk, well, you risk the possibility of being classified as an idiot.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 04:44:32 PM »
Rustic Canyon sounds worth the trip and its on my playlist, but unfortunatly I'll be in the immediate SD area only for less than 2 days. I am hoping to squeeze something in early Sunday morning though...  ;D

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »
I'm headed down there for Cinco De Mayo weekend and may be able to get a round in if time/schedule allows.  Where should I play that round??

Torrey Pines South
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 04:59:56 PM »
Torrey North, IMHO. It's more fun.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 05:01:35 PM »
Torrey North, IMHO. It's more fun.

They are not playing the US Open on the North.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 05:06:02 PM »
Tim, that's fine, but I was suggesting the North because it is IMHO, more fun than the South, regardless of where the Open is being played. It's also much cheaper. I've played both courses about 50 times each and I've found the North to be more enjoyable. The South is a good course and much tougher, but I just like the North better. Plus, it's more scenic IMHO.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 05:44:11 PM »
But missing out on Rustic Canyon for Deadhawk, well, you risk the possibility of being classified as an idiot.

Suppose you were trying to qualify for the Cal Open and needed a practice round to sharpen your game. You are also visiting your family at the time and want to spend a little time with them. Would you still be classified as an idiot for playing Redhawk?

By the way, congratulations to Matt for qualifying. Have fun at MPCC this summer.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2007, 05:48:44 PM »
Another course to think about Kalen would be Coronado. Fun course and a very reasonable price, as Pete can attest. Some fun holes and great views of the bay around San Diego.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2007, 05:52:08 PM »
David:  visitor from out of town, time for one course only, wants to play Torrey South because he wants to play the course that he's seen so many times on TV, the one on which the US Open will be played.  Do you till steer him to the North because it's more fun?


Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2007, 05:53:31 PM »
Another course to think about Kalen would be Coronado. Fun course and a very reasonable price, as Pete can attest. Some fun holes and great views of the bay around San Diego.

David,

Does this mean you have the sophisticated phone equipment to actually get through to the starter in time to reserve a tee time there? ;)
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2007, 06:07:03 PM »
Hucks, I think it depends on what type of player and what's important to him or her. If someone is interested in putting another notch on his guitar, then obviously, Torrey South. I'm not in any way implying that Kalen can't handle the South, I've never played with him. However, I feel the North is more fun. Of course what tee's you choose is an important factor. The North has some pretty stout holes as well. I think the 11th is one of the best of either course. Also, as I mentioned, the cost between the two is quite substantial now. As a silly side note, the one hole the city for years would promote as the sig. hole was the 6th on the North. Downhill par 3 with La Jolla in the distance. It would always crack me up when I would play with people that were playing for the first time and they would ask when that hole was coming and they were on the South. Then they would get disappointed. ::)
Either course is worthy, and I've played them a ton so I know which one I like more, but as I said before, if they want the trophy, the South. If they want a more cost effective alternative and something that has a little more variety (the North has a little more varied holes IMHO and more interesting land movement) then I would say the North.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2007, 06:09:44 PM »
Another course to think about Kalen would be Coronado. Fun course and a very reasonable price, as Pete can attest. Some fun holes and great views of the bay around San Diego.

David,

Does this mean you have the sophisticated phone equipment to actually get through to the starter in time to reserve a tee time there? ;)

Hell no! I've had a harder time getting on there than Torrey! It's crazy! I've only played as a single walk on. If you know a another alternative, let me know. ;)
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tom Huckaby

Re:My Weekend in San Diego
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2007, 06:12:42 PM »
David - gotcha.  That all makes sense to me... I was just wondering how far you'd take this.  

Most visitors are there for the trophy... thus although I agree with every word you say, I'd still steer them to the South.

That is assuming they can get on either course... they're each pretty tough tee-times to get, no?

I last played either in 1986.  Man it's been a long time.


Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back