How far should ethics take golfers and architects?

[John Kavanaugh]

Here is an example that begs for plagerism to be ethical:  Rare were the roars from Rae's Creek.

[Ken Moum]

Augusta National is renowned for its pockets of roars that resonate through Amen Corner and along the back nine.

Gone were those roars that resonate along Amen Corner, as much a part of the Masters as the blazing colors of spring and the red numbers under par on the leaderboard.

Above are two quotes from two different articles about the Masters...Is that plagerism?  They were both AP so may have been from the same writer in that I have no clue how that works.

Go ahead and Google the words resonate amen corner Masters and see if the same guy is responsible for all 20,000 plus hits.

I'd be more inclinded to use the words trite, cliched, tired, mopey, and just plain lazy to desribe the use of "resonate from Amen Corner" in a Masters story.

Anyway, if the AP golf writer uses that phrase in his article, it will appear in thousands of places on the Web, because lf all the news outlets who use all or part of it in their coverage.

It's not plagiarism.

When someone like me takes a press release from an ad agency, and rewrites it into English, and it appears in my weekly newsletter, that's not plagiarism. Mostly because they sent it to me with the fervent hope that I'd  do exactly that.

OTOH, if I see a cool newspaper story about a golf course in Australia and use it as the basis of a story without crediting the original source, it's plagiarism.

If a golf instructor sees a story on a new, innovative learning method from another instructor and then rehashes the it for use under his name in Golf Digest, that's plagiarism.

But two similar articles in Golf and Golf Digest about using a plane stick to cure a slice, are most likely not.

Remember, Picasso supposedly said,, "Bad artists copy. Great artists steal." (Please don't ask me to interpret that)

Anyway, he appears to have said a lot of odd stuff: http://www.quotedb.com/authors/pablo-picasso

[Ken Moum]

Here is an example that begs for plagerism to be ethical:  Rare were the roars from Rae's Creek.

Although alliteration isn't my thing, if you want to use it, put quotes around it and cite the author.

Simple, neat and legit.

Sort of like calling your (copied) Redan a Redan.

Does anyone think that copying a golf hole is plagiarism?

Ken

[John Kavanaugh]

Ken,

Thanks..Is it plagerism if a writer is covering the 14th hole when a hole in one happens on 16 that changes the tournament and he uses someone elses story to craft his own without giving credit?  It seem inevitable given the large field that golf is played on that a writer is going to miss most of the action and depend on others opinions.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

John,
Given past performances..... I hope you can realize the point I'm trying to make here. If it wasn't meant to be defamatory then please, do proceed. My apologies.

If you want to be honest, yes there are issues with architects stepping on other architects, and it's been an issue here how it's a dog eat dog business. You want to talk ethics, point the direction of a Silver Rock Ranch and how the city of La Quinta strung 36+ other architecture firms along for something that was never going to be a level playing field. The city had made it's choice long before. (and for the record, somewhat out of line by law)

The City got what it deserved too.

[John Kavanaugh]

Tommy,

I understand your concern about my intentions.  I have been married 25 years and no matter how much I scream and yell I can not convince my wife that I am not an asshole.

I will say that Golfweek has done a fine job of reporting who is responsible for work done on various golf courses in instances that the public would have never known.  

[Ken Moum]

Is it plagerism if a writer is covering the 14th hole when a hole in one happens on 16 that changes the tournament and he uses someone elses story to craft his own without giving credit?

 It seems inevitable given the large field that golf is played on that a writer is going to miss most of the action and depend on others opinions.

Yes in the case of the first situation.

However, I think it's fairly common for news foks to get help with things that they weren't able to see. In the case of something like the Masters, if you look at the byline, there's usually going to be something like "compiled from staff and AP reports."

The thing that happens too often these days for some oldtimers is that a sports writer will get his whole story from watching the televison coverage and going to post-round interviews. Personally, it doesn't bother me that much, but it might explain why many of the reports as so similar, after all, TV doesn't show every shot.

Dick Schaap's all-time classic, "Massacre at Winged Foot," is a compilation of the work of a whole bunch of people. Dick Schaap was the only name on the cover, but there's a credit list of all the people who collected material for him.

Ken

[Kalen Braley]

Remember, Picasso supposedly said,, "Bad artists copy. Great artists steal." (Please don't ask me to interpret that)

Anyway, he appears to have said a lot of odd stuff: http://www.quotedb.com/authors/pablo-picasso

Hey Microsoft proved this very well.  I guess they took a page right out of Picasso's book..    

[Tom_Doak]

John:

I once spent an hour and a half giving an in-depth interview to a golf writer, only to find when his article appeared later that pretty much everything he wrote was stolen directly from our web site or verbatim from previously-written articles about me and my work.

I've also seen one example where another golf architect had used one of my pictures in his brochure ... taken off a web site which had used one of my pictures.  (NOTHING on the Internet is safe.)

In contrast, golf architecture is a different sort of business.  Most of what's good or bad is a matter of opinion and a matter of conscience, NOT a matter of law.  I've seen business practices that infuriated me but I don't know who I would report them to, and it would just look like sour grapes anyway.

I DO think that classic courses considering a costly renovation should seek out a second opinion from another architect, as you would do with a doctor or lawyer, to find out if they're being sold a bill of goods.  In the end, it's all a matter of opinion, but many clubs don't seem to grasp that not all architects would advise them to spend a lot of money.  However, in the practical world this is impossible -- architects are EXTREMELY sensitive to the idea that "their clients" are being poached away by others.