News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


T.J. Sturges

Genesis for the renaissance
« on: April 18, 2007, 10:22:26 PM »
I read on another thread last week that we (those who appreciate the rebirth of the golden age design style in new course construction) are in the minority in the golf world.  While I agree with that statement, I believe we are a "growing" minority.  

In the last 15 years, there has been a change in the golf architecture world.  Some of the world's most accomplished golf course architects, whose work up to that point was accepted as "gospel" have had their work critiqued and their design style questioned.  "Moundy", "target-style", "cookie cutter" golf courses (that were all the rage in the 70's and 80's) were called out as "unnatural".  Many "emperors" (not you Tommy) were accused of having no clothes.

What happened to cause this change in thinking?  What was the "genesis" for this renaissance?

I believe several events occurred over the last 15 years which contributed to this phenomenon.  My question to the panel is, what were these events, and where would you place them on the "priority of credit due" list?  I'm sure I won't have included everything on the list that should be on this list, so please add other events you feel contributed to this renaissance.  And...please present your list of events in order of credit due for the renaissance as you see it.

Here's my list:

1.  The Confidential Guide to Golf Courses is published (first bound-style copy published in 1994)

2.  Sand Hills is built (1994)

3.  The creation of Golfclubatlas.com

4.  Pacific Dunes opens (2001)

5.  The acclaim received by Tom Doak's firm's body of work

6.  The success of the Coore-Crenshaw firm


What do the rest of you think?

TS

TEPaul

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2007, 10:32:12 PM »
"My question to the panel is, what were these events, and where would you place them on the "priority of credit due" list?"

Ted:

I don't think identifying what those events were or even a priority list of "credit due" with those events is quite so important as identifying why the time had apparently come to basically allow them all to happen as they did in the first place.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 10:35:36 PM »
It's interesting you've got it as a gradual thing. Was the last "shift" more like a boom: Harbour Town?

In a way, this change is as much as anything getting back to the core principles and styles of links architecture, so I'll nominate Sand Hills as a big #1.

In addition to your list, what about the US Open going to Shinnecock in 1994 and Pinehurst in 1999?

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 10:48:12 PM »
I would put Sand Hills front and center.
The development of the Bandon complex is probably when it came more to the attention of the general golfing public.
The Confidential Guide had minor influence I would think as I would imagine less than 1 in 100 golfers even know what it is.

I think another contributing factor that may be a big one (I have no way of knowing) would be the restoration/renovation work done by the architects we generally admire around here. Doak, Hanse, DeVries, etc... I had no idea until the last couple of years just how many of the great classic courses around the country had one of these guys consulting. Given how much of this happens at private clubs with influential people in the golf world, it wouldn't surprise me to find out this could have been the genesis.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

TEPaul

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 11:05:48 PM »
If one is looking for some otherwise seemingly inconsequential event that may've at first sparked the beginning of a so-called renaissance idea and trend in golf course architecture the traditional nomination seems to go to Frank Hannigan's article in Golf Journal about how forgotten Tillinghast had become. I was talking to Doak about it the other day and I was surprised when he told me he thought it was in 1975. I'd forgotten it was that long ago. I feel that the restoration awakening and the new construction style we talk about and may call "renaissance" was sort of all wrapped up in the same bundle and beginning. In both, the name Pete Dye will always crop up, particularly the architects who came up through his company.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 11:15:21 PM »
The opening of Sand Hills is certainly the event that turned my head around.

The world was obviously ready for something different, and better, when Sand Hills came along. But what inspired Coore and Crenshaw to design Sand Hills the way they did? Were they looking for a natural setting in which to debut their minimalist theories? Were they influenced by another contemporary architect or architects? Was it pure luck that they were asked to design a course in that setting, and the result influenced others?

Answer those questions, and I think you're pretty close to figuring out how and why golf changed.


"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mike McGuire

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 11:46:56 PM »
 I nominate golf architects who realized early on the greatness of a lot of  American golden age courses.

Was Ron Prichard one of the first?

Rich Goodale

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 06:19:16 AM »
Great thread, Ted

Your 6 hypotheses are inextricably linked, and to the ancient links….

The linchpin was Pete Dye, whose trip to Scotland in the early 1960’s influenced Wind who influenced Crenshaw (and thus Coore, indirectly).  Pete also directly influenced his apprentices Doak and Coore (who influenced Crenshaw).  All 4 of these men influenced many others (including Ran--who has influenced many on this forum, etc. etc.).

The “renaissance” in GCA has been similar to the Renaissance in art and architecture of 500+ years ago in that its central element has been a rediscovery and rebirth of the intrinsic values of the principles of classical antiquity--firstly in Scotland (rightly so, as it was first) but also in Ireland and even England.  It is also similar in that it has fostered increasing numbers of pilgrims (some of whom are hopelessly converted and some of whom remain inexplicably underwhelmed) to the ancient shrines.

As was mentioned above, Harbourtown was the seminal event of this renaissance.  In many ways it was more influential than NGLA, the manifestation of the earlier renaissance led by CB McDonald.  CB’s renaissance frittered away after 20 years or so.  Dye’s is still going from strength to strength.

Rich

PS—isn’t it interesting how much Indiana figures in this topic?  Dye, Morrissett, JakaB, Sturges….?  If you look it up, you’ll find that in terms of population and area, Indiana and Scotland are doppelgangers.  And, I think there are some great dunes up there amongst the abandoned steel mills near Gary……



Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 08:03:17 AM »
Ted:

I am flattered that you give me so much credit, but if you are going to do so then you have to consider what were my influences ... it's not like I invented any of these ideas myself.

So, you could give some credit to Harbour Town which was the second golf course I ever saw.  And some to all the green chairmen who hosted me at their clubs when I was in college.  And some to Cornell for sending me overseas.  And some to George Peper, who let me start writing for GOLF Magazine when I was 18, without which I doubt I would have written The Confidential Guide.  And some to Dick Youngscap, who wanted to build a great course in the Sand Hills, and to Ron Whitten, who encouraged him to go ahead and helped him find the right architects.

But I think Tom Paul and Rich G. are right to give a lot of the credit to Pete (and Alice) Dye.  Without them, who knows if either Bill Coore or I would have been able to get into the business at all?  And as Pete told me a long time ago, design theories are great, but knowing how to get them into the ground is what makes you a golf course architect.

Rich Goodale

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 08:22:18 AM »
Thanks for the endoresement, Sean.

Paul Stephenson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 08:28:10 AM »
What about Bandon being selected by the USGA to host a national event.  This year's mid-Am.

Is this significant?

Rich Goodale

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2007, 08:34:53 AM »
Significant, Paul, but not seminal.

Bandon broke its cherry at the Curtis Cup.

Tom

You are right from what I know (largely peripherally) about Alice's influence.  I omitted her from the equation only for the sake of brevity.

Rich

"Brevity, thy name is woman."  Shakespeare, but also relevant in the biography of Lise Meitner that I am currently reading.....

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2007, 08:57:26 AM »
No doubt the courses and persons previously mentioned are the most visible connections to the golf styles of today and our most recent past.....but golf, like everything else, hasn't developed in a vacuum, and one really needs to look to the broader societal changes and evolutions to make the bigger connection......and no its not Arts & Crafts [sorry to disappoint ;)] as that was the preceeding Golden Age. We need to instead look closer to our more recent past and trends, and the whole Greening of America that has been occurring since the Vietnam Era onward. The trends for things Natural in most all areas of design and lifestyle have been fairly constant in the last 40+ years and I think golf design has responded in kind....I know it has for this graying ex Hippie.

The brave new 'lets build it bigger ' or 'move it just because we can' type of exuberance of the Post War generation and the 'All things Modern are Better' mentality has gradually been replaced in our life time with the ideas and attitudes that we have begun to venerate in the golf styles [there are more than one], of today.

I'm just beginning to try to figure out where style needs to go tomorrow.......I just came back from a job where I'm combining what I call 'Ballyneal tees', with a soft trail system solution that doesn't impose on the courses links environment, and is 'Green' to boot!

The view from atop Tom D's shoulders is a fine one ;D.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 09:22:55 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

John Kavanaugh

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2007, 09:07:35 AM »
Fazio building Shadow Creek and the acclaim the course received that first year in Golf Digest.  Architects and owners that wanted to make a splash knew they could not top it so decided to go in another direction.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 09:17:06 AM »
As for golf courses, Wild Dunes, TPC-Sawgrass and Harbour Town were tipping points.  

Hardly anybody locally has heard of Sand Hills, Tom Doak or Bill Coore, for what that's worth.

Mike  
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2007, 09:34:57 AM »
Ted Sturges,

It's difficult for a renaissance to take hold when the governing body for golf in the U.S. is assisting, directly or indirectly, with the disfiguring of wonderful, character laden greens at Merion, Winged Foot and possibly other courses.

What kind of message does this send to the golf world ?

"Preserving the traditions of the game" can't be one of them.

It certainly doesn't send clubs the message that they should restore lost features, it sends the message that it's okay to alter or disfigure your golf course in order to "modernize" it.

T.J. Sturges

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2007, 10:05:53 AM »
After talking to Golf's Most Beloved about this earlier today, he brought up a couple of items that should be included in this discussion.

1.  When "restoration" work replaced "modification" work in the golf course design business (did this begin in the 80's?).  (mentioned by Ed Getka above).

2.  Pete Dye's influence and the people he trained (mentioned by others above).

3.  Authors who wrote about golden age courses, and how lots of uninitiated people subsequently read these works.

4.  The transformation of NGLA from a soft, green, tree infested property to a firm, fast treeless property once again and the leadership position that club has taken.

5.  UK golf trips becoming fashionable (tons of US golfers got to see golf as it was meant to be...maybe for the first time in their lives).

TS

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 10:11:29 AM »
Hardly anybody locally has heard of Sand Hills, Tom Doak or Bill Coore, for what that's worth.

Mike  

I believe people on this site tend to forget that. I will guarantee you that of the 20 or so guys I play golf with on a weekly basis, not one of them have ever heard of Sandhills or Tom Doak. They may have heard that Ben Crenshaw has a partner, but they can't name him. In fact, outside of the people on this site, I only know one guy who knows this stuff.

The better question is what architects know this, and I would hope and expect it's almost all of them.

I would expect Paul Cowley has it about right. We have gotten away from Art Deco and 1960's ranch style houses with 8 foot ceilings, and now everybody wants neoclassic or victorian homes or the like. People's tastes have refined over time, and there is an appreciation for the stuff that really works.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 10:21:20 AM by John Cullum »
"We finally beat Medicare. "

T.J. Sturges

Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 10:21:27 AM »
John C:

It's a good point.  But...and I'm not sure where Mike H. is from, but of the 15 or so guys I play with at my club, most know about Sandhills and Pacific Dunes and want to go there.  They ALL know who Tom Doak is because he wrote our club's master plan, so that point is skewed.  I realize we are in the minority, but I believe the minority is MUCH larger than it was even 5 years ago.

TS

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 10:25:38 AM »
I also think this renaissance thing can go too far. I just spent two full days at a course where 14 of the greens were rectangles along with practically all of the bunkers. It got quite redundant and left an impression of oddness. Although it really played very well
"We finally beat Medicare. "

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2007, 10:27:01 AM »
When Pete Dye said he was using ideas from old courses to design his new courses.

Everything that came later was just unpacking that concept. We are still unpacking that concept.

That Dye had such an impact indicates the extent of RTJ's domination after WWII.

Bob
« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 10:30:43 AM by BCrosby »

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2007, 10:39:10 AM »
John.....might you share the name of the course you describe?

Is it a relative of ours?

« Last Edit: April 19, 2007, 10:42:17 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2007, 10:40:19 AM »
I think you know it pretty well Paul
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2007, 11:00:17 AM »
Brad Klien's "Rough Meditations" deserves a mention, as there were tidbits in that book that furthered the notions of what was wrong with many new courses.

The uninspiring repetitive nature of most modern designs, are what did it for me.  

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Genesis for the renaissance
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2007, 11:10:43 AM »
Where exactly does the literature fit in this?

From Classic of Golf reprinting Thomas, MacKenzie et.al.

To Doak's "Anatomy"

Geoff's "Golden Age"

And the discovery of "Spirit of St. Andrews"

And there's the work of Brad on Ross, Doak et.al on MacKenzie, Schackelfords on Cypress and Riviera

Even Strawn's "Driving the Green."

Although the architects mentioned were working on a renaissance, it seems to me that golfers have gotten into the movement somewhat as a result of reading these and other books.

Without them I'd have never made the progress I have in understanding why I like what I do, and further refining my taste in GCA.

Ken
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010