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Mike_Cirba

Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #100 on: April 25, 2007, 09:52:29 PM »
Patrick,

I think Corporate Responsibilities need to come with a conscience, or there's no fundamental difference between the supposed " responsible businessman" and the $10 Havana hooker.

ChipOat

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #101 on: April 25, 2007, 11:18:38 PM »
Mark Fine:

For what my (lousy putter) opinion's worth, I'm not sure that the more severe greens at Merion, Pine Valley, Oakmont, National, and Shinnecock really DO play all that well for everyday member play (or club championships, either).

Greens like that were not designed for 10+ Stimping and don't play "right" at those speeds.

Tommy:

The worse news is that I'm playing even less than I'm posting!
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 11:19:40 PM by chipoat »

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -17
Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #102 on: April 26, 2007, 06:43:34 AM »
Chipoat,
Those are the things that need to be carefully studied to make the right decision for the club.  Again, my main point is, don't change something that can't be changed back for just one tournnament.  See my grandstands analogy in an early post  ;)
Mark

TEPaul

Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #103 on: April 26, 2007, 09:17:53 AM »
"My real issue/concern with all of this is the fact that the speeds do change through the day...whether it decreases due to growth, or increases due to drying out. When the goal is a fixed 11 feet, how would you know what to strive for the green to be at 6am when they cut and roll it so as to provide 11 feet at 11am?

I hate the notion of micro management, but understand the reality at major championships..."

Sully:

My point is that some entity like a tournament association (from regionals all the way to the USGA) does not need to be stimping greens at the time of their maximum speed (generally thought to be around 10am-11am). Those tournament entities know that and obviously so do superintendents. Good supers know better than anyone both how, how much and why speeds change during a day.

Superintendents have all the time in the world to stimp greens at any time and certainly during a time of their maximum speed through the day and they don't really have to do it during tournament play or during tournament week. That's what these guys do and what they KNOW---that's THEIR job and the best of the championship supers know how to do it really well. It's part of their procedure---their maintenance processes. Again, really good supers can translate their mow heights, rolling procedures and such remarkably well into specific green speeds.

The point is that a tournament entity should just ask the super to produce what that tournament entity wants in play (green speed) and then let him do it and just leave him alone. Problems arise when tournament committees try to micro-manage the supers job and change these things at the last minute.

Do I really need to provide examples of where this kind of thing has happened to the detriment of all, including the players and the entire tournament?  ;)

Willie_Dow

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #104 on: April 26, 2007, 09:48:21 AM »
I like the comment on the back of our 2007 club directory by Hugh Best: "Merion continues to be strong on honoring golf traditions, and is proud of its illustrious heritage...  Here they walk a course along with ghosts of the greats, as well as champions of the future."


Patrick_Mucci

Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2007, 04:19:36 PM »
Patrick,

I think Corporate Responsibilities need to come with a conscience, or there's no fundamental difference between the supposed " responsible businessman" and the $10 Havana hooker.

Mike,

0nce again, you're confused. ;D

Fazio's corporate responsibilities, including a conscience, only extend WITHIN the boundaries of HIS organization.

He as NO responsibility to be the conscience of those beyond the boundaries of his organization.

TEPaul

Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2007, 09:42:09 PM »
So what do you think that's supposed to mean Patrick---that Fazio has no qualms or should have no qualms or no conscience about disfiguring classic golf courses?  

Are you one of those fellas who thinks everyone in the world but you is confused?  ;)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2007, 09:45:22 PM by TEPaul »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:USGA green renovations at Merion for 2013 US Open
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2007, 11:43:43 PM »

So what do you think that's supposed to mean Patrick---that Fazio has no qualms or should have no qualms or no conscience about disfiguring classic golf courses ?  

It means that Fazio is NOT responsibile for the collective conscience of the membership at Merion.
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Are you one of those fellas who thinks everyone in the world but you is confused?  ;)


That seems reasonable.
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