18 is it a 'MUST'?

[Jon Wiggett]

I have already posted this question on the Ballyneal-at long last thread. Would a course be acceptable if it had 17 great holes but didn't have an 18th. Or would an 18th have to be introduced no matter how bad it was? Alternetively if a course was made up of 20 holes outstanding holes would players accept it or would the club have to remove 2 even if this meant a couple of long walks? How fixated are we on the 18 hole course?

[Glenn Spencer]

I would say about as fixated as we are on 94-feet basketball courts and 160-feet wide football fields. They could be changed due to amount of players or size of them, logistics of stadiums or something, but like 18 holes, they probably will not. Most people like to shoot a score and be able to compare the course and their game. I wouldn't want to see that go away.

[Tom_Doak]

Jon:

I've designed one course which doesn't have 18 holes -- The Sheep Ranch.  Nobody really has any idea what to make of it, despite its dramatic setting and it being right next to the busiest golf resort on the West Coast.  

The whole time we were building it, the client wanted to know what we thought was the best 18-hole routing that could be played over it.  What does that tell you?

Personally, I love to go out and play a few holes.  My favorite season of golf ever was when Pacific Dunes only had 11 holes in play, and nobody on it.

[Ally Mcintosh]

I admire Shiskine very much for sticking to a 12 hole affair......     Many of my not terribly keen golfer mates have said that golf would be better with 14 or 15 holes because they begin to get bored, tired, hungry etc around this point.

i agree with both of the points... fourteen seems to be the number that less keen golfers wish to play... and shiskine is great...

...however, what is the point in deliberately trying to change the number 18?... there are so many courses that conform to 18 holes that the popular perception will always be so... more difficult to change thousands of golf courses than it is thousands of football pitches... as tom has indirectly indicated, it would probably be commercial suicide...

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't hardly explain how much I dislike the new 19 hole fad.  I've got a 36 hole match this weekend and I just can't see that extra hole doing anything but mucking it up.  Now with Erin Hills having their 19th hole in the middle of the round you can throw any medal play sanity right out the window.  Question: Wadid you shoot? Answer: Well... It is not if golf stories are not boring enough without hearing different scenarios depending on which holes count.  No one is going to give you a 19 hole score.

That being said I would prefer a 12 hole course to a 27 hole of equal nines.  

[Daryl David]

Some of the best golf memories I have are shorter loops at twilight.  My 7 hole preview round at Bandon Trails (1,2,3,4,5,17,18) sticks out.  Easier to savor every moment.  That is one of the great things about Ballyneal.  Being able to squeeze in a few holes carrying only 3 or 4 clubs at sunset.  Definitely golf on the edge.

[Jim Franklin]

If I don't have time to play 18 then I would rather just go practice. I have never been a fan of a twilight nine because after nine, I am juiced for the next nine and if we quit at nine it is a letdown.

As to the original question, yes, you need an 18th hole if you build 17 great ones. You need to complete the deal so to speak.

[Ken Moum]

For better or worse, the world of golf seems to have gotten it's measuring stick stuck 18.

But I grew up playing nine-hole courses. I learned to play on one, and I played in as many as 15 tournaments a summer, 90% of which were on nine-hole courses.

And now that play on an 18-hole course, I often play nine after work, or make a trip around one of the three-hole or six-hole loops it offers. (The truly masochistic can play 10-11-12-7-8-9 three times for ~7,200 yards.)

As Daryl said, some of my favorite times on the course have been knocking it around 3, 6 or 9 holes in the twilight--hitting a shot and then listening for it to land is something that cannot be matched.

K

[Jay Flemma]

What's wrong with building a 19 or 20 hole golf course?  You could market it as "free holes."

[Tom_Doak]

Jay:

That's precisely what's wrong with it, it smacks of marketing.

I've built two nineteenth holes.  The one at Stone Eagle was a great par-3 which they wouldn't let me use as the first or eighteenth hole.  The one at Sebonack was born out of the owner's desire to have a green in that particular corner, even though it didn't fit well within the routing.  Both of them are fun to play, but it will probably be a long time before I'm convinced to do another 19th.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

I liked the 19th hole at Sebonack, in concept, form and location.

It's inobtrusive, tucked away, yet highly functional and well situated for determining the outcome of a match that's tied after 18 holes.

I view it as a sporty addition to the golf course.

But, as you say, I think the circumstances have to align themselves properly in order for it to "fit" the golf course.
In addition, I don't think there's another one within 50 or more miles.

[TEPaul]

The idea of particularly less than 18 may seem OK on here in theory but in the real world it would never sell. There's too much today that requires 18 holes such as handicapping and also the Rules of Golf.

[Jon Wiggett]

All very interesting points gentlemen. I too feel that most people are fixated on 18 holes and therfore would have difficulty with the concept of different numbers of holes. Of course early on in golfs history courses could have as many or as few holes as was wanted but this was back in the days when matchplay was the rule so score was not inportant.

Tom, it amazes me that someone would spend so much money to build the Sheep Ranch but still be so fixated on 18 holes. Why not just build an 18 hole course. But I also find it interesting that at SE you built a 19th because you felt the hole was so good, which was part of my considerations. If a hole fits into the routing and is fantastic why leave it out?

As a kid I and my chums would often play the course leaving this or that hole out, or playing a loop of x holes several times and it didn't ruin our enjoyment of the course.