Architecture vs. Engineering

[Mike Hendren]

These are distinct disciplines.  Do larger architectural firms have an engineer in house?  Do most firms hire a third-party engineer?  Do architects do double-duty - or just stay in a Holiday Inn Express?

Mike

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
I doubt many firms have engineers in house.  I was just saying to a friend of mind that I use some of my engineering background more now than I have in ten years but we always rely on contracting in outside expertise.  Maybe Forrest will comment further, but I know he does not have an engineer in house.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Michael,

A good landscape architecture program teaches you enough basic grading and drainage to engineer a golf course. That should include doing drainage plans using the "rational method" to size drain pipes, which is typically good enough for small water sheds.  However, most course designs also have an engineer to do a "Master Drainage Plan" if associated with housing or flood plain detention.

I get calls all the time from engineering firms asking if they can do my grading for me, but it is really so integral to the design process that I have to do those plans myself.

[RT]

Jeff,

Am I to understand engineering firms call you up to do your grading of the golf course proper?

[Forrest Richardson]

Among golf course architects who are engineers: Bill Kerman (works with Hurdzan-Fry), and Jeff Hardin (Arizona.) There are probably more, but these are two I know of.

Most golf course architects prepare plans and shaping/grading plans, eventually turning these over to civil engineers to wrap into submittals for approval and permitting.

The distinction among civil engineers are those who truly understand how golf courses come together. This eliminates a learning curve timespan and considerably reduces unnecessary details and detail.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I used to be employed as an engineer - all my expertise is in house.  

On site this year we used an engineer to oversee compaction tests and one to build the bridges.

[Dave Kemp]

Mike,

I work for a multi discipline consulting engineering firm in Canada and one of our niche markets is the golf industry.  We often work for the club directly but on occasion are retained by GCA's to assist where needed.  We do a lot of work with the clubs regarding water including permitting/approvals, developing water supply for irrigation systems (wells, intakes, reservoirs, etc), irrigation system design, etc.  We have also designed bridges, clubhouses, turf care centres.   Pretty much anything except the course design which we leave to the experts.  

Dave

[Kalen Braley]

Dave,

What type of engineering backgrounds do people often have in this line of work.  My brother just graduated with his Masters in Civil Engineering. Is this a feasible career path with that type of degree?

[Chris_Baynham]

Dave,

What's the name of your company?

Do you work outside Canada?

Chris

[Dave Kemp]

Kalen,

We are a civil engineering firm and the engineers who work in the group servicing the golf market are typically civil grads with water resources or environmental backgrounds.  Personally I am a structural engineer and get involved with the bridge and building projects.  Your brother's education would certainly work but I don't believe there are any firms, at least in Canada, they rely soley on work from the golf industry. We have been able to adapt typical engineering services from our development background for our golf clients but it is one of many client groups we serve.

Chris, no advertising and not yet.  


Dave

[PjW]

Mike:

As a golf project manager one of my responsibilities is to coordinate the golf course architects plans into the civil engineering plans.  The civil plans are the plans submitted to city or county government for permitting.  This is especially necessary for large amounts of storm drainage (12 inch to 60 inch), other infrastructure, road interfaces and other engineered elements in the site.  In effect, we build the site from the civil and construct the golf on top of it.  This requires that the golf course architect to be aware of the restraints placed upon any changes as how it effects the civil elements.  This usually does not effect the golf in the core, but on the fringes of the golf holes.  On my current project there are 120 sheets of civil plans, including: golf course grading and storm drainage, culvert plans and profiles, erosion control and miscellanous details.  The golf course architects plans mask the civil for grading but include: strategy, routing, clearing, minor golf drainage (4inch to 10 inch) grassing, a full set of irrigation plans, full set of landscape plans and construction details.  The complete set of plans will close to 200 sheets.  The key to this is make sure every consultant is working from the most recent base grading plan.  Most golf architects are not registered engineers and can not stamp plans for approvals.

Phil