Your Canadian Top 10....???

[Bob Jenkins]

Living on the west coast, I find that many of us out here have heard of the classic courses in the east and some of us have played some or a few. Personally I have played one in ONtario, 6 courses in the Nova Scotia and PEI and the rest in BC or Alberta.

The result would be, for me:

1)  The Thompson 3, ie Capilano, Banff and Jasper
4)  Dundarave at Brudenell. Hell of a course
5)  Shaughnessy
6)  New Asburn outside Halifax
7)  Fairview Mountain, Oliver, BC
 Crowbush
9)  Glen Abbey
10) Point Grey

Probably the same applies vice versa for those in Ontario. Many have also not seen the great courses in the Maritimes. It is such a big country, unless you have lived in several provinces it is difficult to judge on a national perspective.

Bob J

[Tyler Kearns]

Which states could rival Canada's list head to head?  We'll go with the obvious NY, California, and Michigan.. which other ones?

Pennsylvania, New Jersey

TK

[cary lichtenstein]

I'll publish mine after this summer's trip to Toronto area, but so far, Highland Links in Cape Breton is number 1.

[Alan Carter]

Cary, I look forward to hearing the results of your summer Toronto trip!!!!!!!!!!  

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Can you tell me what folks think about the following:

Chateau Whistler Golf Club

A detailed analysis is most helpful -- also with a Doak rating number if possible.

Also, what would people recommend playing that is within 200 miles of the aformentioned course and that is still in Canada.

Thanks ...

[Matthew MacKay]

Matt, I haven't seen Chateau Whistler but hear it is decent. Whistler has a few courses within 30 min. of the town, but the best golf to be found nearby is Capilano and Shaughnessy, both in Vancouver.

Capilano is excellent Thompson in a sublime setting. Shaughnessy is a really strong Macan course...a touch flat, but very good overall.

[Tyler Kearns]

Matt Ward,

I believe there are 3 courses in Whistler; Chateau Whistler, Nicklaus North and another whose name escapes me. I have only played Capilano in BC, but have heard good things about the University GC (U of BC campus). A trek to Vancouver Island would expose you to the heralded Victoria GC, and I know a few people who rave about Nicklaus' effort at Bear Mountain on the island.

TK

[Alan Carter]

Gents:

Can you tell me what folks think about the following:

Chateau Whistler Golf Club

A detailed analysis is most helpful -- also with a Doak rating number if possible.

Also, what would people recommend playing that is within 200 miles of the aformentioned course and that is still in Canada.

Thanks ...

Matt, it is a spectacular piece of property, just maybe not appropriate terrain for golf to be played on.  It can be a little too difficult for the avarage player, specifically the stretch of holes 2 through 4.  Better players will enjoy the challenge, the scenery is wonderul, but the course is not everyone's cup of tea.  A lot of the holes look and feel the same.  If you are driving it well, there is a stretch of par 4's 11 through 15 that are all less than 400 yards in length that can be had.  For most people the course is a love it or hate it affair, but most unfortunately going with the latter opinion.

As far as in the area goes, in Whistler you also have the choice of Nicklaus North (the terrain is as flat as a board and uninspiring would be the word I would use to describe the course), the Whistler Golf Club (an older Palmer design, short, a bit quirky, but not terrible) and up the road is Big Sky (Cupp design, likely the best golf experience out of the bunch, again not a whole lot of character to it, but worth the drive up the road).  

Using the 200 mile rule puts you in Vancouver and gives you some very nice private courses in Capilano (a Stanley Thompson, Top 5 in Canada) and Shaughnessy (and A.V. Macan with great reviews from the PGA Tour players from the 2005 Canadian Open).  From a public side, the best in the area is likely Westwood Plateau (a Hurdzan that I have not played, but heard decent things about - specifically great service standards), Morgan Creek (a McBroom that has hosted a bunch of Canadian Tour events) and Northview's Ridge Course (a Palmer that used to host the PGA Tour's Air Canada Championship).  

All in all, the best in the Vancouver/Whistler areas would be Capilano, Shawnessey and a toss up between Chateau Whistler and Big Sky in the Whistler area.

As I've been typing this I see that Tyler has brought up Vancouver Island.  It is a bit of a haul to get over there by ferry, but he is correct you would be adding a great Victoria GC (Harvey Coombe), a wonderful Royal Colwood (A.V. Macan) and yes I too have heard very nice things about Bear Mountain.

 

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Where would one rate Chateau Whistley if not the top ten then where. The second 10 -- top 25, top 50, etc, etc ?

Thanks ...

[Alan Carter]

Top 50

[Andrew Balakshin]

Gents:

Can you tell me what folks think about the following:

Chateau Whistler Golf Club

A detailed analysis is most helpful -- also with a Doak rating number if possible.

Also, what would people recommend playing that is within 200 miles of the aformentioned course and that is still in Canada.

Thanks ...

Matt, it is a spectacular piece of property, just maybe not appropriate terrain for golf to be played on.  It can be a little too difficult for the avarage player, specifically the stretch of holes 2 through 4.  Better players will enjoy the challenge, the scenery is wonderul, but the course is not everyone's cup of tea.  A lot of the holes look and feel the same.  If you are driving it well, there is a stretch of par 4's 11 through 15 that are all less than 400 yards in length that can be had.  For most people the course is a love it or hate it affair, but most unfortunately going with the latter opinion.

As far as in the area goes, in Whistler you also have the choice of Nicklaus North (the terrain is as flat as a board and uninspiring would be the word I would use to describe the course), the Whistler Golf Club (an older Palmer design, short, a bit quirky, but not terrible) and up the road is Big Sky (Cupp design, likely the best golf experience out of the bunch, again not a whole lot of character to it, but worth the drive up the road).  

Using the 200 mile rule puts you in Vancouver and gives you some very nice private courses in Capilano (a Stanley Thompson, Top 5 in Canada) and Shaughnessy (and A.V. Macan with great reviews from the PGA Tour players from the 2005 Canadian Open).  From a public side, the best in the area is likely Westwood Plateau (a Hurdzan that I have not played, but heard decent things about - specifically great service standards), Morgan Creek (a McBroom that has hosted a bunch of Canadian Tour events) and Northview's Ridge Course (a Palmer that used to host the PGA Tour's Air Canada Championship).  

All in all, the best in the Vancouver/Whistler areas would be Capilano, Shawnessey and a toss up between Chateau Whistler and Big Sky in the Whistler area.

As I've been typing this I see that Tyler has brought up Vancouver Island.  It is a bit of a haul to get over there by ferry, but he is correct you would be adding a great Victoria GC (Harvey Coombe), a wonderful Royal Colwood (A.V. Macan) and yes I too have heard very nice things about Bear Mountain.

 

I personally think that there is a lot more to be seen at the University Golf Club (on my school's campus actually) than Northview (Ridge) or Morgan Creek.

[cary lichtenstein]

Matt:

I liked Chateau Whistler alot, and that was the only one in Whistler we liked

Played Capalino in Vancouver, excellent.

Cary

[Robert Thompson]

I actually like Chateau Whistler a lot, but it is a very severe piece of property, and is just a good mountain course. Too hilly to be really great -- it walks up the side of a moutain and then back down again -- but I had fun playing it.

Probably a Doak 5. I liked the Palmer course in Whistler -- Whistler Golf Club. Bob Cupp's Big Sky left me flat -- generally because the golf course is flat.

In Vancouver, Shaughnessy, which I played today, and Capilano are king. The player's course is Marine Drive -- but it is built on 94 acres and is really tight.

[Bob Jenkins]

Hello out there!

As for Whistler and in particular Chateau Whistler, it is a RTJ2 design assembled in very difficult terrain. It is mostly above the Village of Whistler with some rather severe elevation changes.  Considering what he had to work with, it is an excellent design. On the Doak scale, likely a 5 or 6 but a fun afternoon or morning.  Great vistas and some very interesting holes, especially when it comes to short par 4s.

Otherwise Whistler has Nicklaus North and Whistler Golf Club. Personally, I found Nicklaus North uninspiring except for the last 4 holes. The original course at Whistler was the Whistler Golf Club which was a Palmer design although I have no idea of what involvement he had. It is in the heart of the village and in my humble opinion, is much more fun than Nicklaus. Compressed but making the most of what they had to work with.

What you are missing if you are in the area is if you fail to drive to go a further 20 minutes or so past Whistler to Big Sky in Pemberton. Fabulous layout, fairly flat but running up to the edge of huge mountains. Great conditioning. Well worth the drive.

There you go. For what it is worth.

Bob Jenkins

[Ian Andrew]

St. George's
Highland Links
Hamilton
Jasper
Toronto

Banff Springs
Capilano
Westmount
Cataraqui
St. Thomas

Paintbrush
Blackhawk
National
Beaconsfield
Bruno

[Tim Pitner]

Please give me some perspective--are the top 1-2 (or more) courses in Canada on the same level as the top 10-20 in the U.S. or the top 10-20 in Great Britain and Ireland?

[Ian Andrew]

Please give me some perspective--are the top 1-2 (or more) courses in Canada on the same level as the top 10-20 in the U.S. or the top 10-20 in Great Britain and Ireland?

Tim,

Both Highlands and St. Georges are solid (Doak) 8's. Highlands is really strong and consistant, St. George's has better architecture but renovation has hurt a few holes. Hamilton to Banff are 7's to me - that said Jasper is my pick for my final round over Cypress point and other places I have played.

If you go there, you will see why. It is my favorite place.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Although not Top 10, anyone driving through Southwestern Ontario from say Detroit to Toronto, looking for a great bang for their buck should make a point of playing Forest City National in London, Grey Silo Golf Course in Waterloo, or Copetown Woods in - you guessed it Copetown.  All three can be played prime time for less than $60 Canadian.

[Jeff_Mingay]

My favourite 10 - not necessarily the best, but simply where I enjoy playing golf - west-to-east:

1. Royal Colwood
2. Victoria Golf Club
3. Capilano
4. Jasper
5. Banff
6. Blackhawk
7. Hamilton
8. St. George's
9. Devil's Paintbrush
10. Highlands Links

Toronto would be 11 on my list; and I really look forward to seeing Mount Bruno, which I understand is excellent.

[Greg Murphy]

I haven’t played enough courses to even begin to create an authoritative top ten. But I can offer a personal top few. Of the courses mentioned in other posts, I’ve played The National and Devil’s Pulpit (Ontario) Blackhawk and Wolf Creek (Alberta), and I’ve walked half the holes at Highlands (Nova Scotia). These five would all easily make my top ten. After that, I might have to succumb to a little home cookin’—three Saskatchewan courses that I’d proudly include in my top ten are The Riverside, Dakota Dunes and Katepwa Beach. Dakota Dunes is perhaps not all it could be but it is an incredible site. I’ve only played it once. The Riverside is hosting the Canadian Amateur in 2007 and will get a little exposure as a result. I have enjoyed my rounds there as much as any I've played anywhere. In Nova Scotia, I also enjoyed New Ashburn and Glen Arbour. A third course in Ontario I enjoyed playing a couple times when it first opened was Mad River (Ontario). Other good (or at least “known”) Canadian courses I’ve played that would not crack my top ten are Point Grey and Furry Creek (absolutely bizarre) in B.C., Heritage Pointe and Kananaskis in Alberta and St. Charles in Manitoba. Besides Furry Creek, I’d enjoy playing them all on a regular basis but for me they’re a notch below the others I’ve played.

Reviewing others posts, I venture to add if one were to “label” Canadian golf, from Capilano to Jasper Park, Bigwin Island to The National, St. George’s to Highlands Links, it would seem that all but a few (such as Dakota Dunes, Eagle's Nest and Devil’s Paintbrush) tend toward undulating mountain/valley "wilderness" style layouts. Trees are a dominant feature in most and with or without trees, they're all beautifully rugged. Or is it ruggedly beautiful? Whatever. The best tend to be big and natural, like the country itself.

[Gary Slatter]

Please give me some perspective--are the top 1-2 (or more) courses in Canada on the same level as the top 10-20 in the U.S. or the top 10-20 in Great Britain and Ireland?

Yes, same era, same GCAs, possibly in Canada there is less interest in "changing" classics, maybe due to the shorter growing season, changes will take longer to come back, so why make them.  Stanley Thompson is getting credit for his brilliance and he may be the one unique thing Canadian courses have that others don't, a "local" designer. His non-Canadian designs have not been maintained as well.

[Robert Thompson]

Please give me some perspective--are the top 1-2 (or more) courses in Canada on the same level as the top 10-20 in the U.S. or the top 10-20 in Great Britain and Ireland?

Probably not, but not very far off. I think if Jasper or Banff were in the U.S., they'd be Top 100 on Golf Magazine's list.

That said, Highlands, Hamilton and St. George's are all on Golf Magazine's Top 100 list -- and though they are down the list, they largely rival most of the great courses I've played in the U.S. and the U.K.