Lost Shots at Augusta National

[Chris_Clouser]

Bob,

Maxwell did not do anything with the 17th hole from what I have found in my research.  He did touch holes 1 and 14 though (greens).  Hole 10 was moved due to a drainage issue supposedly.  Hole 7 was moved by direction from Clifford Roberts as the pros told him the hole was too easy for a professional tournament.  I agree though with your summation on #7 not being as reflective of what Mac would have wanted for the course.  My guess is that when Maxwell did the work he was willing to do what Roberts said, as long as he got a check.  Which is former partner never did from Roberts or Augusta National.

Chris

[BCrosby]

Chris -

Who did do 17?  Not trying to be argumentative, I'd just like to know.  I always thought the changes to 1, 7, 10, and 17 (i.e., you push up the green and build big moonface bunkers into the fillpad) all walked, talked and looked like Maxwell.  

That MacK never got his design fee is one of the bigger skeletons in the ANGC closet.  Hootie doesn't bring it up much when talking about their attention to the traditions of the game.







  

[Chris_Clouser]

If I were to guess, I would say RTJ, but I don't know for sure.

[Chris_Clouser]

Bob,

I just pulled up a pic of the 17th I have and I could see how the bunker on the right could be seen as a Maxwell design trait, but the one on the left, just seems out of place as it takes away the possible use of that slope to the left of the green and Maxwell wouldn't have done that.  But if anyone can come up with some info that clarifies the situation I'm all ears.  Oh on the bunker traits, I don't know that would be good way characterize Maxwell's bunkers and greens, just how they appear now after over 50 years of maintenance by a lot of different people.  His bunkers did have a more ragged appearance than they are now shown as, at least in the photos I've seen.  
Chris

[John_McMillan]

Brian,

Re the mound on 15 -

If someone has aimed for the mounds, and hit a shot towards them, with a long iron/fairway wood from a downhill lie, then he has successfully executed a shot.  I guess you'd disagree with Mackenzie's original intent for the hole, "a skilful and courageous player will, aided by a large hillock to the right, be able to pull his second shot around to the green."

Re the bunkers on 17 -

The best I've been able to find so far is a piece written by Bobby Jones for Sports Illustrated in 1959, describing how to play Augusta National.  His description of the 17'th hole includes 2 greenside bunkers, so they were there by 1959.  

[Ran Morrissett]

MacKenzie's explain of the 17th is fascinating - it sounds like it once was a truly special hole and one that would have held up (relatively) well against technolgy.

What's the kindest word that anyone has heard about the 17th in the past 40 years? John, how did Jones say to play it in the article?

Like the 12th at Garden City or the 15th at San Francisco, it seems like the club would elect to do something about such a sad mongrel of a hole.

[Mike O'Neill]

So many of these changes were made with Bobby Jones in tow. If the golf holes have suffered, does anyone know why Bobby Jones stood by and let it happen? Or did he try to stop the changes? What was his input and what sort of decisions did he face?

The computer graphics are great John.

By the way, I have always been under the impression that you play the tee shot down the right side of #10 to pick up the slope and get some roll. That's even having been there during one practice round. I really missed that.

Are the golfers today typically faced with only 100 yard approach shots into #11? If so, then that hole has lost most of its drama.

The fact that the fairway bunker on #10 is still around is wonderful. And it seems to be closest in shape to the original AN bunkers. I had always wondered about why that was still there. I once asked Ben Crenshaw if he thought it was there as a sort of lone symbol of the original bunkers, given its shape and all. He said simply, "It could very well be." Does anyone know why a bunker that has not found a single golfer in the last 3,469 rounds of professional golf is still there if not for the sake of tradition and/or sentiment?

[John_McMillan]

Ran -

Here is Jones' description (from the 1959 Sports Illustrated article) of how to play the 17'th at Augusta National.

17. 400 YARDS PAR 4
The pine tree in the fairway, although it is only a little more than a hundred yards from the tee, has grown to such proportions that it provides a real menace to the tee shot. The proper line of play is to the right of this tree, but also to the left of the big mounds and two other trees at the top of the hill. Depending upon the wind, a fine drive may leave a second shot requiring anything from a good five-iron or easy four to a short pitch. To become involved with the mounds on the right may impose difficulties of either lie or visibility, or both.

On the left side, the green slopes gently, but quite perceptibly, from front to back. With a following wind, therefore, even the shortest pitch over the bunker and the slopes off the base of the mound must be played quite accurately. A ball played too strongly to this side of the green may take a good run off a slope at the back and so leave a difficult return chip. On the right side immediately behind the bunker there is a nice little basin which provides a most inviting place for the pin on quiet days. On this side the green slopes very  definitely upward toward a sort of plateau area near the back. This is a very difficult pin location when the wind is against, because a shot played boldly to get near the hole could go over the green, down a slope, whereas the safe shot may call for some difficult putts.   The hole looks innocuous enough, yet it provided the decisive moments in the 1956 tournament when Jack Burke, in a stretch run against Ken Venturi and Cary Middlecoff, scored a birdie 3 at the hole, while Venturi took 5 and Middlecoff 6. Burke won by one stroke over Venturi and two over Middlecoff.

[Ran Morrissett]

John

Very interesting reading and it confirms what we thought - Augusta had certainly become an aerial course by 1959. Quite a contrast to MacKenzie's original description of the hole, eh?  

Still, can you imagine a five iron into THAT green?

FYI A friend of mine who is a member says that the biggest change to Augusta isn't the new distance but that several of the tees were re-positioned just enough to where a fade is now the ideal tee ball on at least 3 or 4 more holes than before. I assume this was done with a view to make it harder for the pros to get more roll?

Cheers,

[Will E]

maybe the boys in green are in Mickelson and Weir's camp

[Jeremy Glenn. (Guest)]

Wow, John!  Great work!!

I must have missed it last month.  I think I was in Florida  

Anyway, waddya say we team up for a study of the Lost Shots of the Old Course?  

[Joel_Stewart]

This was from 5 years ago and the link on the original post is not available but its a good question.  Is any shot still available at Augusta except for the 12th?

[BCrosby]

Anyone know where John went? Does he still live in Michigan?

He was a valued poster. We need to convince him to return.

Bob