Zach Attack: What does his win say about the architecture?

[Joe Hancock]

Does one have to win a bunch of other tourney's before the Masters to be considered worthy? Or, can one start here? I think Tiger's first major was at Augusta.....was he unworthy when he did that?

Joe

[Kalen Braley]

Does one have to win a bunch of other tourney's before the Masters to be considered worthy? Or, can one start here? I think Tiger's first major was at Augusta.....was he unworthy when he did that?

Joe

Tiger already had built his legacy even before strapping up for his first PGA tour event as a professional.  He was the man-child and that was his coming out party.  I put Zach Johnson more in the Paul Lawrie and Ben Curtis camp...

[Ryan Farrow]

He grew up in Iowa, what do you think he is going to say.

[tlavin]

One would THINK that Johnson will not be a one-hit wonder. One would speculate that this wasn't a freakish occurrence, but then again, a couple years ago, people thought Chris DiMarco was on the cusp of doing something.  All he's done is continue to gag.  So, Johnson will have to win some more events before he shakes the label he got today, "Most Unworthy Christian to Win the Masters since Larry Mize".

[Andrew Summerell]

As the token clergyman on this site

Don't worry, you are not the only 'clergyman' on here.  

[David_Elvins]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe

Rick,

That is a truly bizzare comment.

Some information on Lyle, Woosnam and Wier at the time they won the Masters.

Lyle was ranked in the Top 5 in the world at the time of winning the Masters.  He had already won The Open Championship.  He had also already won once on the US tour that year and won an event on the US tour each of the previous 4 years.  He had also won twice on the European Tour for each 5 years previous other that 1986.  

Wossnam was the number 1 ranked golfer in the world when he won at Augusta.  He had been ranked in the top 10 of the world for 5 years previous to his masters win.  He also average one Top 10 Major finish per year for 6 years prior to 1991.  He remained World number 1 for 50 weeks.  

Mike Weir came to Augusta as the World's 10th ranked golfer.  He had won twice on tour already that year and had also won the highly coveted American Express Championship and Tour championship in previous years.

To put these players in the same company of Zach Johnson, a guy with one tour win, a world ranking outside 50 and a previous best Major performance of T17 is myopic at best.  At worst it shows a level of xenophobia that dwarfs the religious intolerance shown by others on this thread.

David,

You're probably right on all accounts, though I doubt xenophobia is at the root of the issue.  Woosie and Lyle didn't do all that much AFTER winning the Masters.  Maybe that's why some find them "unworthy" winners.  Mize is probably a better example, but my sense of journalistic integrity forces me to acknowledge that he's a bible thumper as well.  You just can't escape 'em...Just kidding.  I don't want to get hit by an uninsured truck on the way to court tomorrow...

Good Points Terry,  Lyle and Weir in particular had dramatic slumps after their Masters win.  Lets hope Weir can come back from his.  (Woosie kept winning in Europe and maintained a top 25 ranking for about 7 years after winning).

[John Kavanaugh]

One would THINK that Johnson will not be a one-hit wonder. One would speculate that this wasn't a freakish occurrence, but then again, a couple years ago, people thought Chris DiMarco was on the cusp of doing something.  All he's done is continue to gag.  So, Johnson will have to win some more events before he shakes the label he got today, "Most Unworthy Christian to Win the Masters since Larry Mize".

What does that make Chip Beck?

[JR Potts]

You think Jesus' golf ball walks on water too?  Will Tiger's ball on 15 resurrect?

I'm not sure what it says about architecture.  However, today spoke volumes about Zach Johnson and his ability to play the game.  That guy is tough!!!

[tlavin]

I feel certain I'm going to miss a softball lobbed in my direction, but I'd say Beck came almost as close as Scott Hoch to winning the "Most Likely to Gag Away a Green Jacket".

And there's no doubt that Jesus wanted Chip to continue to suffer...

[JR Potts]

The question I really want to know:  Who would win a match play event at Augusta - Jesus or Ditka?

[tlavin]

The question I really want to know:  Who would win a match play event at Augusta - Jesus or Ditka?

Does Ditka get the pencil?

[C. Squier]

Wow....the guy is a Ryder Cup cupper, tore up the Nationwide Tour before he joined the big Tour and absolutely golfed his ball around Augusta as one of the shortest hitters out there.  And people are blasting him and the tournament.  I guess some will never be happy, or at best,  just hypocritical.  Can we sticky this thread so its easily reached once the next "Bomb and Gouge" thread pops up?

To answer Terry's original question:

I think the "new" Augusta showed some interesting aspects this week.  The par 5's played very differently.  Layups were the smart and profitable play.  I think its interesting to watch these long hitters play outside of their comfort zone.  Every other week, 215 in the middle of the fairway, they're NEVER thinking about laying up.  Augusta made the wheels turn.  To me, that adds interest.  Watching guys who can routinely hit wedges to 4 feet play away from that shows that Augusta was playing mind games.

I've never seen this many people lay up so closely to 13 green, especially low left.  Also, huge premium laying up on 15 to a halfway level lie.  

As for the par 4's, I'm on the fence.  The new trees, as dumb as they may be, are there.  I think they almost give the SHORTEST hitters an advantage.  500 yard Par 4 says "must hit driver" to everyone.  Longer hitters need to hit through the chute and very accurately curve their drive, or risk blowing it through fairways.  Zach could hit driver, but didn't have to curve it as much to navigate around the artificial doglegs.  New clubs don't hook or slice.....they push or pull.  Which is why I think you saw guys like Appleby and Tiger hitting some really bad drives, mostly double crosses.  Inside out swings that used to provide a nice cut, now just result in a big pull.  

I think its really rewarding to play a round of golf knowing that you didn't hit many spectacular shots, but played smart.  Hitting away from pins, making kick in pars and working your way around a course can be fun when you know that's the only way to play a certain course.  Augusta was just that this week and Zach did it best.  

And if God, his wife or a big brown teddy bear gave him the inner fortitude to do that.....good for him.  He has his green jacket and a hell of a story to tell his kid.

CPS

[John Kavanaugh]

The question I really want to know:  Who would win a match play event at Augusta - Jesus or Ditka?

Jesus wouldn't cry if he lost....Ditka would cry either way.

[JR Potts]

The question I really want to know:  Who would win a match play event at Augusta - Jesus or Ditka?

Does Ditka get the pencil?

Ditka is driving the cart.  Jesus is etching the scores onto granite tablets....Ditka's pencil is rendered useless.

[Mike_Young]

As the token clergyman on this site I should probably respond.  Having been with people who have been through everything from the joy of birth to the death of a child, people of faith find strength in times of sorrow and increased joy when there is reason to rejoice.

When Ben Crenshaw won with a "fifteenth" club in his bag there was universal understanding.  Yet when a young man thanks everyone from his first grade teacher to God, he gets jumped.  He did not say God was rooting for him only that his faith helped him down the stretch.

I probably would have said my thanks differently, but the fact that this young man was willing to share his joy with those who helped him with his game and his life is a credit to his humility.  He may not be the "worthy' champion some of you want but he seems like the kind of person I would like to get to know.

Happy Easter

Now let's talk golf.

Tommy
Happy Easter.
Well said.
Mike

[PThomas]

I wish I had half his wedge game

I think they just said on The Golf Channel he was -11 on the par 5s....without going for one green in two!!!

[Rick Shefchik]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe, but like the opinions offered on the ANGC setup this week, I think it's premature to make that evaluation.

What Johnson's win does say is that shorter hitters CAN still win at Augusta.

Rick

Woosie was world ranked #1 when he won, Sandy had just won the Open was ranked #2 in '88. Johnson may go on to great things but , compared to those two one would have to say - yes, relatively weak.

Can't blame Rick for not knowing anything about them.  Neither were American.

Well, that's a low blow. I was looking at the totality of Lyle's and Woosnam's careers -- three majors between them -- and suggesting that Zach Johnson can certainly attain that lofty level. Hey, they were great players. Perhaps Johnson is too. I just didn't see any reason to denigrate a relatively young player who has just accomplished something special and may have many more special days ahead of him.

[PThomas]

With regards to Johnson, I think it's pretty sad that he didn't go for any par 5 in two (including laying up from 213 out on 13 today). I love seeing attacking, exciting golf, and I firmly believe that is what has made the Masters special (Nicklaus' back nine charge in '86 being a prime example).

That is such a CROCK OF CRAP.  If Jack had laid up and made 4 on #15 and birdied #18 to win (he barely missed), you guys would all be singing his praises for his intelligence in not going for it and staying within himself.

GMAFB.

hard to disagree with the strategy of a guy who WON!

Shiv, your statement above is why I will not hang Chip Beck for laying up ...he thought it was the best play for him, he just didn't execute a good wedge shot

[PThomas]

Paul, how far did Beck have in?  Do you know without Googling it?

Shiv, I will have to try and and find an article about how far he had....

[Rick Shefchik]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe

Rick,

That is a truly bizzare comment.

Some information on Lyle, Woosnam and Wier at the time they won the Masters.

Lyle was ranked in the Top 5 in the world at the time of winning the Masters.  He had already won The Open Championship.  He had also already won once on the US tour that year and won an event on the US tour each of the previous 4 years.  He had also won twice on the European Tour for each 5 years previous other that 1986.  

Wossnam was the number 1 ranked golfer in the world when he won at Augusta.  He had been ranked in the top 10 of the world for 5 years previous to his masters win.  He also average one Top 10 Major finish per year for 6 years prior to 1991.  He remained World number 1 for 50 weeks.  

Mike Weir came to Augusta as the World's 10th ranked golfer.  He had won twice on tour already that year and had also won the highly coveted American Express Championship and Tour championship in previous years.

To put these players in the same company of Zach Johnson, a guy with one tour win, a world ranking outside 50 and a previous best Major performance of T17 is myopic at best.  At worst it shows a level of xenophobia that dwarfs the religious intolerance shown by others on this thread.

And that accusation of xenophobia is way over the top. I merely suggested that Johnson might be as good a player as Woosnam and Lyle. I don't give a crap what country they're from. Why turn this into some us-vs.-them pissing match? It certainly wasn't my intent.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Given this story (http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/headlines/display.var.1309266.0.0.php) I am sure that CBS' man on #15 - David Feherty would also not approve of ZJ's bringing up the Big Guy after winning.

[David_Elvins]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe

Rick,

That is a truly bizzare comment.

Some information on Lyle, Woosnam and Wier at the time they won the Masters.

Lyle was ranked in the Top 5 in the world at the time of winning the Masters.  He had already won The Open Championship.  He had also already won once on the US tour that year and won an event on the US tour each of the previous 4 years.  He had also won twice on the European Tour for each 5 years previous other that 1986.  

Wossnam was the number 1 ranked golfer in the world when he won at Augusta.  He had been ranked in the top 10 of the world for 5 years previous to his masters win.  He also average one Top 10 Major finish per year for 6 years prior to 1991.  He remained World number 1 for 50 weeks.  

Mike Weir came to Augusta as the World's 10th ranked golfer.  He had won twice on tour already that year and had also won the highly coveted American Express Championship and Tour championship in previous years.

To put these players in the same company of Zach Johnson, a guy with one tour win, a world ranking outside 50 and a previous best Major performance of T17 is myopic at best.  At worst it shows a level of xenophobia that dwarfs the religious intolerance shown by others on this thread.

And that accusation of xenophobia is way over the top. I merely suggested that Johnson might be as good a player as Woosnam and Lyle. I don't give a crap what country they're from. Why turn this into some us-vs.-them pissing match? It certainly wasn't my intent.

Thats cool, I wasn't accusing anyone of xenophobia,  just stating that, at worst, it could have been taken that way when you pick 3 guys not from America who were numbers 1,2, and 10 in the world coming into the Masters when they won and compare their status in the game at that time as similar to the current status of Zac Johnson.  Obviously, the flaw in your comparison has been pointed out, although in hindsight I probably didnt need to speculate on the motive.

[Doug Siebert]

JC really dropped the ball for Tiger today.

Well, people kept complaining about all the goddamnits, but he didn't listen!

[Rick Shefchik]

Thanks, David. I'm glad we can remove the fear-and-loathing-of-foreigners from this discussion.

I might just as well have brought up Ben Crenshaw or Mark O'Meara, to mention two other winners from the past twenty years that Johnson might very well not be "weaker" than.

Again, I was just trying to defend a player who seemed to be taking unjust criticism after a very impressive win -- and the criticism seemed to be motivated by those who really wanted to bash the course. I thought Augusta National was a terrific test, and lots of fun to watch.

[Brad Klein]

Beck made the right decision for himself at the time. He had 236 to get it across, slightly downhill lie, very light breeze at him. Too many of these judgments are made on the basis of whether the fellow making the decision won or lost. If the criterion is what he was thinking about and how he understood his situation at the time and what was best for his own comfort level and risk/reward ratio, I think Beck make the right call at the time. So does he, by the way.