Zach Attack: What does his win say about the architecture?

[Joe Hancock]

What a treat. A guy wins, credits his family, his faith and his teachers and sponsors...and you get offended by his statement of faith. I bet not a one of you know this guy well enough to know whether his "statement" is in tune with his morals and ethics, but judge away.

" I'd like to thank Mobil Exxon, for without their support and contributions to global warming, it may have been in the 40's all week...."

Gotta complain about something on this thread...this is mine.

 

Joe

[Kalen Braley]

As to the architecture?  I'm not sure Zach winning says anything.  He played the round of a lifetime and without him doing this we would be watching Retief and Tiger in a playoff right now and all would be well with our world.

While I'm no fan of all the tree plantings, I don't think the course is that drastically different from the previous 4-5 years when Tiger and phil won all those championships.  One middle tier tour guy hitting some clutch shots at the right time does not in my mind have any bearing on the architecture of the course..

[Michael Christensen]

jeez guys...it is Easter Sunday...give the guy a break.  He just had the biggest moment in his career and thanked everyone in his life, including The Almighty.  I find it rather genuine...unlike the like of TOwens and Neon Deion in their day.

I have become a Zach Johnson fan this last year...he played really well in the Ryder Cup and played great today given the pressure.

[tlavin]

I, too, have grown tired of the Jesus Diseases people who credit the Lord when they win and cut him slack when they fail.  I would like to think that Jesus would have helped this lad win more than once before this weekend, but then again, I'm a bloody heathen, aren't I?  

The last case I tried in court ended in a mistrial.  My client (deceased) was a devout, born-again Christian.  I could have used a boost from the Lord, but maybe he was busy working on Zach's game.

[Kalen Braley]

What a treat. A guy wins, credits his family, his faith and his teachers and sponsors...and you get offended by his statement of faith. I bet not a one of you know this guy well enough to know whether his "statement" is in tune with his morals and ethics, but judge away.

" I'd like to thank Mobil Exxon, for without their support and contributions to global warming, it may have been in the 40's all week...."

Gotta complain about something on this thread...this is mine.

 

Joe

You miss the point Joe...by him saying that God was helping him to win, then you must also imply God was against everyone else?  How silly and ridicilous is that?  And if that is what God indeed did for Zach on this Masters Sunday, then that is no God that I want to be apart of or beleive him.

And for the record, I never critizd him for thanking his family, friends, teachers, and supporters, because he is right on line with that.

Sorry Terry, didn't mean to hijack the thread...I've said my piece about that.

[Michael Christensen]

for those out there that don't understand the Almighty....HE LOVES AND ROOTS FOR EVERYONE!

[Tim Bert]

What a treat. A guy wins, credits his family, his faith and his teachers and sponsors...and you get offended by his statement of faith. I bet not a one of you know this guy well enough to know whether his "statement" is in tune with his morals and ethics, but judge away.

" I'd like to thank Mobil Exxon, for without their support and contributions to global warming, it may have been in the 40's all week...."

Gotta complain about something on this thread...this is mine.

 

Joe

You miss the point Joe...by him saying that God was helping him to win, then you must also imply God was against everyone else?  How silly and ridicilous is that?  And if that is what God indeed did for Zach on this Masters Sunday, then that is no God that I want to be apart of or beleive him.

And for the record, I never critizd him for thanking his family, friends, teachers, and supporters, because he is right on line with that.

Sorry Terry, didn't mean to hijack the thread...I've said my piece about that.

I think it is you that misses the point.  I dont think Zach professed that Jesus was rooting for him or helping him finish above the others.  Perhaps He was giving all, or many, of the competitiors the strength and focus to keep in contention.  Zach never thanked Jesus for having Tiger hit the ball in the water on 15.  He simply thanked Him, on Easter Sunday, along with a whole host of others that have had an influence in his life.  

[Joe Hancock]

Kalen,

Poor logic. Zach felt The Lord somehow help him, but I didn't hear him say The Lord help fend off the enemies.....I think he kept it very personal.

Usually, this type of discussion digresses. I won't contribute to that kind of direction, but I do feel by publicly criticizing the winner for his statements isn't giving the man much respect.

Joe

[Craig Sweet]

I set some challenging pins today, and a golfer came up to me and commented on them...I smiled and thanked Jesus and said I couldn't have done it without Him.

Those pins today were for you Jesus! Happy resurection!

[Tim Gavrich]

Re: the Jesus thing, it's a bit disconcerting when He is given full credit.  Heck, Zach gave credit to everyone but himself, it seemed.  Baddeley gave a similar comment when he won the FBR Open earlier this year.  I'm an agnostic myself, but I don't have too big a problem with adding God et al into a list of sources of credit.  Whatever keeps you going, I guess.

Anyway, I think that Johnson's win says great things not only about the architecture at ANGC, but also the brilliant (yes, I said "brilliant") course setup.  As I said in another thread, the variation in types of players on the leaderboard exemplifies just how sound and complete a test Augusta was this week.  Think about it: what other 7400+ yard course has ever yielded so many finesse players for contenders?  I enjoyed watching today's round as much as I have ever enjoyed a televised round of golf.

[Dave Bourgeois]

JC really dropped the ball for Tiger today.

[Joe Hancock]

I, too, have grown tired of the Jesus Diseases people who credit the Lord when they win and cut him slack when they fail.  I would like to think that Jesus would have helped this lad win more than once before this weekend, but then again, I'm a bloody heathen, aren't I?  

Terry,

I can "heathe" with the best of them, but I doubt I can hold a candle to a lawyer.....

Joe

[CHrisB]

You miss the point Joe...by him saying that God was helping him to win, then you must also imply God was against everyone else?  How silly and ridicilous is that?  And if that is what God indeed did for Zach on this Masters Sunday, then that is no God that I want to be apart of or beleive him.

I think this statement reflects how most people misunderstand the kind of comments made by Zach Johnson and others in the sports world.

He's NOT saying that God wanted him to win, or that God even cares who wins or loses.

He's saying that his faith in God is what gave him the inner strength to handle a very stressful situation and perform the best he can perform. And so he is thankful for that source of inner strength.

Other guys find strength in other sources, like family, sport psych, meditation, etc.--ZJ found strength through his faith.

Now whether he should credit that source on international TV might be open for debate (some people feel uncomfortable at the mention of religion in general and Chrsitianity in specific), but if you think that ZJ thinks that God wanted him to win, then you really don't understand his mindset.

[PThomas]

we have freedom of religion and freedom of speech, last time I checked

so he thanked God?  why is that bad?  he's not trying to convert anyone

maybe if some other atheletes these days had more faith they wouldn't be in jail, etc...

[Kalen Braley]

I told Terry that it wasn't my intention to high jack this thread...but sorry Terry hard to resist.

I don't think I'm the one who has it wrong with the Jesus thing.  The problem is, all the religious types out there, don't want to think deeply and really analyze exactly what they are implying by saying "the man upstairs was with me".  The implication is that Jesus was rooting for him and actually assisting him to make the shots he made.  If Zach gave him credit, then suredly Jesus must have added something right?  So my question is why would God care about the masters and who wins?

If Jesus does really care about everyone and roots for everyone, then why would he give one guy an extra preference?  Did he make other believers not play as well and end up not winning? This is the laughable part, and for the record, I'm not offended in anyway, but he only discredits himself to think that God would be caught up in such a trivial event?

If Jesus really is as described in the bible, wouldn't he really care about world suffering?  The millions dying in Africa and Asia every year from competely curable diseases?  Or the hundreds of millions of children who will go to be hungry tonight and cry themselves to sleep?  Or the other myraid of real world problems?

So once again, if your Jesus was rooting for Zach, then its not a Jesus that I will have any desire to believe in.  ironic that wh

[JNC Lyon]

Zach Johnson is fantastic winner on what proved to be great course.  I find his use of faith in Jesus and God as a source of strength to be awesome.  Many people could learn from his example and become happier, unlike many on here who bitterly condemn his belief in God as well as his creditentials as a golfer.  I can't seem to find one thing wrong Zach Johnson and his win.

[tlavin]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Do you think his win (divine guidance aside) says anything in particular about the architecture and the renovation that has been done in recent years?   A lot of people on this site were throwing stones at the work and those responsible for foisting this version of ANGC on us, but I think the course and the changes were vindicated by this man's victory.

[CHrisB]

Kalen,
See my post above. It addresses how I think you are misinterpreting what ZJ said...

[HamiltonBHearst]

Time to go back to the regular programing now that Terry has had the chance to make his hit and run attack.  

Is it that ridiculous that a man can say he derives strength from some sort of faith?  Seems to me he was also answering a direct question, maybe you all should give him a list of acceptable answers to these sorts of questions.   It would appear that many object to what he believes rather than what he says.

[JNC Lyon]

Paul Thomas is correct, I'm pretty sure we still have freedom of religion in this country, although many will tell you otherwise.

Another point is that God can see good in just about everything and everyone.  With Johnson winning the Masters, he may use his paycheck and new fame to spread God's Word and to help those in need.  Unfortunately, many who see only the greed and evil of money can't understand how this would happen.

[Brad Klein]

Oy vey

[Bill Gayne]

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...

Do you think his win (divine guidance aside) says anything in particular about the architecture and the renovation that has been done in recent years?   A lot of people on this site were throwing stones at the work and those responsible for foisting this version of ANGC on us, but I think the course and the changes were vindicated by this man's victory.

I agree completely. In regards to making a bold play on the par fives and going for it in two, it was an option that Tiger and Harrington elected to do on both 13 and 15. It paid off for both of them on 13th. If either of them pull off the eagle on 15 then Zach is looking at a play-off. If he loses the laying up is a bad strategy and the bold play of Woods or Harrington was rewarded. It was a calculated strategy that worked.

[David_Elvins]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe

Rick,

That is a truly bizzare comment.

Some information on Lyle, Woosnam and Wier at the time they won the Masters.

Lyle was ranked in the Top 5 in the world at the time of winning the Masters.  He had already won The Open Championship.  He had also already won once on the US tour that year and won an event on the US tour each of the previous 4 years.  He had also won twice on the European Tour for each 5 years previous other that 1986.  

Wossnam was the number 1 ranked golfer in the world when he won at Augusta.  He had been ranked in the top 10 of the world for 5 years previous to his masters win.  He also average one Top 10 Major finish per year for 6 years prior to 1991.  He remained World number 1 for 50 weeks.  

Mike Weir came to Augusta as the World's 10th ranked golfer.  He had won twice on tour already that year and had also won the highly coveted American Express Championship and Tour championship in previous years.

To put these players in the same company of Zach Johnson, a guy with one tour win, a world ranking outside 50 and a previous best Major performance of T17 is myopic at best.  At worst it shows a level of xenophobia that dwarfs the religious intolerance shown by others on this thread.

[Tommy Williamsen]

As the token clergyman on this site I should probably respond.  Having been with people who have been through everything from the joy of birth to the death of a child, people of faith find strength in times of sorrow and increased joy when there is reason to rejoice.

When Ben Crenshaw won with a "fifteenth" club in his bag there was universal understanding.  Yet when a young man thanks everyone from his first grade teacher to God, he gets jumped.  He did not say God was rooting for him only that his faith helped him down the stretch.

I probably would have said my thanks differently, but the fact that this young man was willing to share his joy with those who helped him with his game and his life is a credit to his humility.  He may not be the "worthy' champion some of you want but he seems like the kind of person I would like to get to know.

Happy Easter

Now let's talk golf.

[tlavin]

Weaker than Sandy Lyle? Weaker than Ian Woosnam? Weaker than Mike Wier? Maybe

Rick,

That is a truly bizzare comment.

Some information on Lyle, Woosnam and Wier at the time they won the Masters.

Lyle was ranked in the Top 5 in the world at the time of winning the Masters.  He had already won The Open Championship.  He had also already won once on the US tour that year and won an event on the US tour each of the previous 4 years.  He had also won twice on the European Tour for each 5 years previous other that 1986.  

Wossnam was the number 1 ranked golfer in the world when he won at Augusta.  He had been ranked in the top 10 of the world for 5 years previous to his masters win.  He also average one Top 10 Major finish per year for 6 years prior to 1991.  He remained World number 1 for 50 weeks.  

Mike Weir came to Augusta as the World's 10th ranked golfer.  He had won twice on tour already that year and had also won the highly coveted American Express Championship and Tour championship in previous years.

To put these players in the same company of Zach Johnson, a guy with one tour win, a world ranking outside 50 and a previous best Major performance of T17 is myopic at best.  At worst it shows a level of xenophobia that dwarfs the religious intolerance shown by others on this thread.

David,

You're probably right on all accounts, though I doubt xenophobia is at the root of the issue.  Woosie and Lyle didn't do all that much AFTER winning the Masters.  Maybe that's why some find them "unworthy" winners.  Mize is probably a better example, but my sense of journalistic integrity forces me to acknowledge that he's a bible thumper as well.  You just can't escape 'em...Just kidding.  I don't want to get hit by an uninsured truck on the way to court tomorrow...