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Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2007, 08:43:49 PM »
Garland please provide contact info as you are the new overseas rep on the competition committee for...The Classic Masters.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2007, 08:51:20 PM »
Sorry Ran, the Masters and ANGC are perfect!  
ANGC meets all the criteria for an April Championship to test the world's best. The trees produced many heroic shots, great entertainment.  Trees are very native to Augusta, they fit!  
Let's hope they get the same dry weather every year.  

To me this year's event was all about pin placements, a brilliant job, and they even made it more exciting for Sunday.  

Royal Westmoreland can hold an Australian Masters so they can get that media created elusive title.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2007, 11:02:07 AM »
Garland please provide contact info as you are the new overseas rep on the competition committee for...The Classic Masters.

If you don't know how to contact me, then you need to learn to use the website better.  ;)

I do have a suggestion for the ball. When Ohio was doing their experiment, I looked through the USGA ball specs and noted there was a green slazenger that had high spin off the driver and high spin off the short irons. I understand that these specs come from the manufacturer, and not from the USGA, but the ball Ohio picked wasn't even spec'd as high spin off the driver. Therefore, right away I felt they could have done a better job picking the ball.

Of course, CEO Norman could perhaps use company resources to create The Classic Masters ball.

Perhaps he could invite players for three divisions. 50 men under 50, 50 senior men, and 50 women. Give him another chance to win a Masters title.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:03:43 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2007, 02:27:50 PM »
Having played RMGC multiple times and walked ANGC several, I'd wholeheartedly agree with Ran, Mike and Mark and affirm that Royal Melbourne could handily host the Masters with a months notice.

Granted, the brown rough and surrounds, along with the rugged and real MacKenzie bunkering would startle most American viewers right out of their barca-loungers, but once they saw Vaughn Taylor four-putt from 4ft, they'd get right back in without missing a sip from their Budweisers! The course is, as Mike Clayton said, what Augusta would like to be. If the pins were properly set, I suspect par could be reasonably protected. If the wind blew with such pin placements, 290+ would prevail.

Simply put, it is without a doubt one of the world's greatest courses and one that ideally melds year-round firm & fast with strategic shot-making premiums. It does that better than nearly every US course, save for Shinnecock at its best.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2007, 03:58:36 PM »
A great idea.

But consider this. Would ANGC be today a better course if it didn't host a major every year?

As at ANGC, after a few years there will be mounting pressure to toughen RM. The dunderheads will not like really low winning scores. They will worry that RM was beaten. Or that people will no longer respect it. Or some such nonsense.

Be careful what you ask for. There are Hooties and Billies and Fazios everywhere.

Bob  

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2007, 04:00:59 PM »
I don't know Royal Melbourne except to see it on TV on occasion and it looks great...but heer's my thing with this type of analysis. When a course hosts a major championship every single year something crazy happens...unexpected rain could yield extremely low scores on a course like RM without the length that Augusta has added. How about a weather pattern that dries out the course or blows the ball around on the greens? These are the type of situations that dictate altering the course for the sake of predictability.

We can sit here at our keyboards and say the hell with predictability, golf was not meant to be predictable. Try saying that when you are running th biggest, most watched golf tournaments in the world.



Ran,

Would you wish it on Royal Melbourne to be the host of a major golf tournament every single year?



On the other hand, we can sit here and hypothesize about our ideal golf setup and weather and on and on, but once we re-enter reality those other things need to be considered.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2007, 04:23:15 PM »
Most of what is being talked about with regard to RM seems to be green speeds. That is obviously not the course's only defense. Does the width of the fairways and the shape of the greens make par a tough proposition for the mortal golfer? For those who have golfed at RM, how far over your handicap would you guess you go? Is the primary difficulty the short game demands or the putting?
   How would you rank by priority the following demands, from most difficult to less difficult: drive placement, approach shot demands, short game demands (non-bunker), sand game, putting, green reading?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2007, 05:28:54 PM »
Ed,

For me everything works back from the greens; the features you mention "interact" with them to produce the difficulty.

For example, what makes the greenside bunkers so difficult is knowing what will happen to the ball on the greens.  Then you start thinking and it's all over.

My adventure one round on the short par-four 3rd on the West went as follows:

Flag back right, so I think I should hit a layup drive down the left side. Unfortunately, I "succeed," and from the fairway now face a little shot of 60 or so yards looks perfect for a pitching run up, only there's a swale in front of the green running from front left to back right.  (It's a fall-away green so I don't want to try the all-air route. Next time I resolve to try my luck from over the green, but that's another story...)

I notice a reasonably flat space to the left and figure if I can sort of just bounce it up through there, the ball will roll out and as a bonus maybe the beginnings of that swale will gently draw the ball right and towards the flag.

What a complete waste of thought! Fixated on the swale, I proceed to push my little running pitch just left, where -- oh no, there's a bunker over there! -- the bunker just barely pulls it in. I don't completely realize it yet, but this innocent-looking bunker is a widow-maker...

(Meanwhile, my playing partner has made the proper play, having driven out to the right so as to face the swale at a right angle.)

Although I have an ocean of green to navigate, and the bunker is not particularly menacing -- I notice there's not much sand in it and what there is, is very packed -- I know from previous play on the hole that if I can't spin it out of the bunker it will run a mile.  So the shot looks long, but plays much, much shorter.

I don't want to risk a scull in the hard-packed sand, so I play more of a squared-off bunker shot.  Knowing I need to barely get it on the green and it will run and run and run, I hit a shot that only just fails to clear the lip, and like the shot before it rolls around the face before settling down to the bottom.  Now I'm 10 feet closer, but somehow feeling worse off -- how could I make such a dumb mistake as driving it down the left side! Why did I challenge that bunker!

My next shot just barely lands on the green -- juust makes it on, can't be more than a little three-foot carry -- and doesn't race down, but impressively for its relatively slow speed, doesn't seem to want to stop.  Whoa!

Two putts from there for a -- wait, I can't have added that right, it's just a dinky little par 4 -- psychologically deflating double!

After that traumatic experience, the bunkers start to look differently. You start thinking, "does every out-of-position approach involve carrying a greenside bunker?"

And forget what everyone says about how huge the greens are.  They only look big when you're on them; they look a lot smaller from the tee and / or approach due to how the bunkers eat right into them, a fascinating feature that's a MacKenzie special.

I think it gets worse the more you play it; the first time around nothing looks so dramatically fearful, with a few notable exceptions. (Left bunker on 10!)

In short, Ed, you're meat! It's going to take your game apart! Play to the middle of the green and spend all your waking hours practicing speed putts!

There's no hope for you -- at some point the course will get you and leave you muttering about "How could I miss that fairway!" and "One of these days I'll get it to the hole" and "Time for the hand wedge."

Cold comfort will be the members who remind you Ernie Els couldn't get it out of there, either, or Allenby threw away a big check from right where you're standing...but remember, it's better to be in a greenside bunker than to be wide of it. From such locations, you might as well just aim for the bunker on the opposite side, because that's the only thing stopping your ball.

Have fun!
Mark
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 08:19:27 PM by Mark Bourgeois »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2007, 08:08:47 PM »
Mark,
      ;D ;D ;D Thanks for the pep talk. I have been having nightmares about thinning pitches off tight lies and blading bunker shots when my wedge bounces off the sand for months. You are NOT helping at all! ;)
      Is there ANY chance that I can get out of the bunkers with the standard bounce Cleveland 588 SW?
     You really had me worried when you were talking about the short par 3 (actually a par 4) that you laid up 60 yards short of. :o

It is interesting how a great course can get in your head like that. I have experienced that at Crystal Downs and Prairie Dunes, where you know how tough some of the greens are when you end up in the wrong place, and it works back out to your approach shot, and even often times back to your drive. All because you know how important it is to ulitmately be able to hit the proper part of the green.

I look forward to being blissfully ignorant this first time around. Or at least I was, until you planted all those scary thoughts. :-[

I'll be sure to get in touch the next time I need cheering up. :)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 08:09:56 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2007, 08:36:05 PM »
Thanks for spotting the mistake.

As to laying up on a par 3, good luck if you hit 16 RM W on a day the wind is blowing a hard Southerly...

Mark

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2007, 08:42:22 PM »
Mark,
   Is my standard issue SW going to work? Inquiring minds are desperate to know.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2007, 09:59:13 PM »
Confidence, Ed! C-O-N-F-I-D-E-N-C-E!!!!

Now is no time to be switching clubs...

But if you are confident in your LW, practice it on tight lies and hard-packed sand...

Mark

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2007, 10:40:50 PM »
LW!!!! You MUST be kidding. That is like showing a cross to dracula. :D
     
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

peter_p

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2007, 10:49:04 PM »
Ed,
Trust the force. You won't have any problem with a normal sand wedge. And the lies aren't toooo tight. I would suggest re-spiking your shoes to get thru ag. inspection.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2007, 10:58:54 PM »
Peter/Ed

I suggest Ed (and David kelly) scrubs clean his golf shoes before he leaves for Australia (and probably after golf in New Zealand).  It will save him perhaps 5 or 10 minutes going through Customs/Immigration.

My two pairs were scrubbed by the local quarantine inspector on my return a couple of days ago.

Try to remove the dirt and dry turf completely from the shoes if you can.  Not just 'blown-off' clean by aircompressor, but scrubbed clean!

James B
« Last Edit: April 10, 2007, 11:00:12 PM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2007, 11:05:10 PM »
They might spray your shoes anyway. Don't mess with the ag people. They'll spray your shoes (no charge) and / or fine your a--. (Unsurprisingly, they take credit cards.) Although this trip through the inspector remembered me by name and waved me through with only the most cursory of glances! (Is that a sign of too much travel or what?!)

Mark

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2007, 11:05:51 PM »
PS The Kiwis are worse!

Mark_F

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2007, 11:22:01 PM »
Mark,

They always are.

In everything.

RichMacafee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2007, 12:45:02 AM »
LW!!!! You MUST be kidding. That is like showing a cross to dracula. :D
     

Ed,

With good technique, a low bounce SW is adequate. However if you want more than adequate a LW is pretty much compulsory on the sandbelt IMO ;)
"The uglier a man's legs are, the better he plays golf. It's almost law" H.G.Wells.

Brian Walshe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2007, 04:30:34 AM »
Ed,

Make sure you declare your golf shoes (and clubs) on the form when you arrive as for some reason Australian Customs are paranoid about them.  Regardless of how clean they are they will take them off and fumigate/clean them to ensure none of the nasty grasses you have in the US come in via seeds.

I made the mistake once of not declaring my golf shoes because I'd cleaned them to within an inch of oblivion with a tooothbrush before I left the US thinking that would be OK.  Wrong - guy gave me a written warning for not declaring them - well I think the 5 min argument we had where I kept asking for him to show me the seeds he reckoned were there might not have helped.

Jim Nugent

Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2007, 07:00:35 AM »
Some questions about a Masters type event at RM:

1.  Better to use the west course or the composite?

2.  Els shot 60 there once.  Composite or west?  Easy weather and wind conditions that day?  What about the pins?

3.  How did the players do there during the Presidents Cup?  

4.  I'm guessing RM holds a number of pro tournaments.  What caliber of players take part, and how do they do?

5.  Do any of Australia's top touring pro's play there fairly often, and if so, how do they score?  

Here's hoping Ran at some point can do a new course profile of Royal Melbourne.  

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2007, 08:22:08 AM »
Jim.

In order:
Composite - inside one fence and longer.
Els' 60 Composite - easy day pins average (I shot 73 so it must have been esay)
Presidents Cup was played in hot north winds on the first two days and cold south wind on Sunday.The hot north wind day at RM is a horror and the Americans here barely better than hopeless.You have to know the course to play it in that wind.

All the great players have played there - except Palmer - and the course always holds its own although the new ball has made it a much different course.

Ogilvy plays there a bit - with members paced greens he does 66 every time but like Augusta it's a diferent course in a tournament.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 08:23:27 AM by Mike_Clayton »

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2007, 09:20:18 AM »
I think ANGC has all these qualities except the Mac has been removed in many ways. However the shot values and green complex strategies are there. The rest of what Ran talks about is there. It is just evolving. 1,7, and especially 11 are creating concerns for me.

Brian Walshe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2007, 09:58:22 AM »
Mike,

From memory Ernie's 60 on Saturday was followed by 42 on the front nine on Sunday.  It wasn't all one way traffic.

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Can Royal Melborne West host next year's Masters?
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2007, 12:05:50 PM »
Ed,

Make sure you declare your golf shoes (and clubs) on the form when you arrive as for some reason Australian Customs are paranoid about them.  Regardless of how clean they are they will take them off and fumigate/clean them to ensure none of the nasty grasses you have in the US come in via seeds.

I made the mistake once of not declaring my golf shoes because I'd cleaned them to within an inch of oblivion with a tooothbrush before I left the US thinking that would be OK.  Wrong - guy gave me a written warning for not declaring them - well I think the 5 min argument we had where I kept asking for him to show me the seeds he reckoned were there might not have helped.

Brian,

I guess I got lucky last year, because they didn't even inspect my golf clubs (which were clean). As soon as I pulled my golf shoes out of the case, I realized they were lighty littered with Canadian soil & grass, but much to my surprise, the customs people said, "clean enough".

TK