Whitestone (Brauer) , TexasStar (Foster)

[mark chalfant]

These courses flow nicely over  softly rolling terrain.  Has  anyone played them.  thanks

[mike_beene]

I am not sure where Whitestone is.Texas Star is a good course,maybe the best muny I have played.A lot of it was built on landfill.A lot of native grasses.Plays Scottish to me with a lot of run up type options.Between this course and Cowboys,there is something to be said for getting stuck at the Dallas airport.

[Sam Morrow]

I have played neither but am planning on playing Texas Star actually in 2 weeks, I have been told by almost everyone that it's one of the best in the Metroplex. I have not heard much about Whitestone except that it's a typical public golf course, apparently houses line the fairways and there is nothing great about it. Of course that's just what I have been told. It's down in Benbrook and I believe it's off 377 (the road to Granbury).

[mike_beene]

Sam,Texas Star is a very nice course,but in my view it is not a top 10 dfw course,but maybe top 20.Parts of it have that Texas river bottm feel.Also,the high rough gets old,especially those middle of the fairway patches.I better quit before I drop it in my rankings.

[Sam Morrow]

Is it better than say Tierra Verde or Grapevine Muni?

[mike_beene]

Haven't played Grapevine in years,and never played the other one you mentioned,so I don't know.

[Sam Morrow]

Haven't played Grapevine in years,and never played the other one you mentioned,so I don't know.

I think that Grapevine is a great alternative to Cowboys right next door. Tierra Verde is a pretty nice course in Arlington that if in the area is worth checking out.

[mike_beene]

Sam,I have heard nice things about Tierre Verde.I really like Cowboys other than the fact everyone rides.I play it about once a week.It is the closest thing to St Andrews greens I have seen in this country.I wish the architect would jump in and talk about them.He should be in a good mood after the Stars big win last night.

[Sam Morrow]

Sam,I have heard nice things about Tierre Verde.I really like Cowboys other than the fact everyone rides.I play it about once a week.It is the closest thing to St Andrews greens I have seen in this country.I wish the architect would jump in and talk about them.He should be in a good mood after the Stars big win last night.

That's right back to back come backs. Do you live over near Cowboys?

[mike_beene]

No,I live in the Preston Hollow area but my office is by the airport.I take it you are in the area?

[Sam Morrow]

No,I live in the Preston Hollow area but my office is by the airport.I take it you are in the area?

Actually down in Corsicana so just a little ways.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sam,

Whitestone has some houses, but the front nine is a core nine with houses on the perimeter.  Many holes run through some very nice woodlands, negating the few that have houses, IMHO.  The back nine has a bit more, with hole 11 (a nice par 3) having houses (eventually) on both sides, and holes 10, 12-18 eventually having them on one side.

While no one will confuse it with some of my top designs in DFW, like Cowboys, Indian Creek Creeks (remodel) and Tangle Ridge, I think its under rated by virtue of its location in SW FT. Worth.  I put it on par with Ridgeview Ranch, which I love, except for the housing that dominates it now.

BTW, Whitestone is techincally the world's only Brauer/Morrish co design.

Mike,

I was traveling, and didn't even get to see the two big weekend wins on TV.  Nuts! Hope they don't let down against the Blues tonight, and with the BB finals on, I fear the stadium will be empty.

Not sure what to say about Cowboys greens.  Jerry wanted a traditional course, and I was in the mode of fighting the "too flat" greens I saw in new designs, so I gave them more contour than is conventional.  The only one that should remind of TOC is No. 4, which is a modern version of the Valley of Sin.  Naturally,  that contour gets a fair share of critiques from some golfers, esp. in winter when they get real slick.  The only one I regret doing is No. 2, where the left side is close to unputtable.  Also, I should have put one in that was truly flat just to really mess with golfers minds!

[Sam Morrow]

Sam,

Whitestone has some houses, but the front nine is a core nine with houses on the perimeter.  Many holes run through some very nice woodlands, negating the few that have houses, IMHO.  The back nine has a bit more, with hole 11 (a nice par 3) having houses (eventually) on both sides, and holes 10, 12-18 eventually having them on one side.

While no one will confuse it with some of my top designs in DFW, like Cowboys, Indian Creek Creeks (remodel) and Tangle Ridge, I think its under rated by virtue of its location in SW FT. Worth.  I put it on par with Ridgeview Ranch, which I love, except for the housing that dominates it now.

BTW, Whitestone is techincally the world's only Brauer/Morrish co design.

Mike,

I was traveling, and didn't even get to see the two big weekend wins on TV.  Nuts! Hope they don't let down against the Blues tonight, and with the BB finals on, I fear the stadium will be empty.

Not sure what to say about Cowboys greens.  Jerry wanted a traditional course, and I was in the mode of fighting the "too flat" greens I saw in new designs, so I gave them more contour than is conventional.  The only one that should remind of TOC is No. 4, which is a modern version of the Valley of Sin.  Naturally,  that contour gets a fair share of critiques from some golfers, esp. in winter when they get real slick.  The only one I regret doing is No. 2, where the left side is close to unputtable.  Also, I should have put one in that was truly flat just to really mess with golfers minds!

Jeff thanks for the description. It's funny you mention Ridgeview Ranch, I have always enjoyed that golf course but people I talk to hate it. I agree that the development on it takes away but it's still a fun lay-out. I was leaving Columbian yesterday and drove past Prestonwood for the first time and I noticed condos on that golf course also.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Sam,

The only complaints I hear are the houses, and the fact that it plays over 60K rounds, and tends to be slow.  It is in some ways the victim of its own success.

At various times, the greens and other areas of maintenance have suffered, but were good last time I was there.

I do think the design has lots of neat features, though, and is worth playing.  Earlier in its existance, even some nearby private clubs booked their outings there, liking the course so well.  Now, its just a zoo.

[mike_beene]

Jeff,your Stars prediction unfortunately came true.I still see TOC in the Cowboys greens.!7 at Cowboys reminds me of a mirror of 11 TOC,especially down frontSeveral of the greens have the feel of TOC 2nd,with its dives and dips.A smaller version of TOC 10th would fit in.The 11 and 12 fairways have a double fairway feel.Perhaps my imagination gets carried away.I think 2 is fine.#3 is the one that is crazy.Below the hole can spin back into water and above can putt into water.On left can putt it by and then get a second chance as it rolls back.