Menie Links — Advice to Mr. Trump

[Forrest Richardson]

Donald Trump has not called me yet, so I figured it would be best to offer up advice collectively — sort of a collaboration from GCA.

Rather than bash Donald, as I have read here many times from some of you, I think it would be neat if constructive advice might be levied in the following posts....what should and could he do at Meine Estate in Scotland? Rather than sarcastic comments, how about some serious ideas.

[PThomas]

has he selected an architect yet Forrest?

[Forrest Richardson]

I am not certain. My guess is that the Fazio team would join this project. But, that is only a guess.

[David_Tepper]

It was announced some time ago that the younger Tom Fazio (the nephew of Tom Fazio) will be the architect of the 1st course.

There is a ton of info (including some awesome photos of the site) at:

www.trumpgolfscotland.com  

[Brad Klein]

Tommy Fazio, son of Jim Fazio and nephew of Tom Fazio. See Golfweek Forecaddie of March 31 for preliminary details and a photo of the site.

[Forrest Richardson]

So, where's the advice?

[Garland Bayley]

Get a different architect! How's that for advice? Maybe get someone with an impressive resume in links or links style golf, not the third cousin of someone in the old boy network.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Garland,

Forrest asked to hold the sarcasm, no?

If Fazio doesn't have the wealth of links experience to draw from its an interesting question, not unlike a running team deciding to pass once it reaches the playoffs to surprise the opponents.

What does Fazio do - an America style course that he is best at, or try to do his first links style to fit the style of the rest of the country?

My head hurts just thinking about it.  

[Kalen Braley]

My advice to Mr. Trump would be to put out a RFP for the new course that includes a topo map and see who responds to it.

[Forrest Richardson]

I suppose the choice of an architect is advice, but not what I had in mind here. What I thought would be productive — at least to stimulate our minds — would be constructive advice on what to do with a great piece of links in order to achieve the goal/objective of developing a grand course.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The pice of ground looks fantastice but also a challenge to route.  The first thing is to come up with a couple different routings.  I would then ask some folks familiar with links style golf to comment.  I don't know much about Tommy Fazio but this could be such an important course that a collaborative approach makes sense.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Forrest,

By "Grand Course" do you mean one that Trump charges a grand to play?  My advice would actually be to charge a wee bit less, perhaps offering free golf with the purchase of a $300 bottle of Scotch......

[David_Tepper]

Forrest -

All I can suggest is that:

1) They visit the great courses of northern Scotland (Royal Dornoch, Royal Aberdeen, Nairn, Cruden Bay, etc.) to see what golf there is all about.

2) They respect the spectacular site they have been given to work with.

3) They remember that, much of the time, less truly is more!

All we can do is hope for the best.

DT

[Forrest Richardson]

David — What did the founders of Royal Dornoch, Royal Aberdeen, Nairn, and Cruden Bay learn from one another — or other "great" courses?

Isn't there some advice that might recommend looking 180° in another direction — to something never attempted before?

[Adam Clayman]

Giving DT free advice just seems wrong.

The man clearly has a different view on what constitutes great golf.

The best case fiduciary scenario for the Trump organization would be to build an American style GC. Complete with trees and ponds.

The best case scenario for those who value linksland golf would be for DT to build it in France.

[Bill_McBride]

I second David's motion - suggest that the Faz team AND the Donald disguise themselves as itinerant American golfers and set up a golf trip - just like the one I returned from yesterday - North Berwick West   , Muirfield  , St Andrews Old and New  , Old in reverse for some aerial attack additions  , and a round at a strong secondary course like Lundin Links  .

Play the ancients and then try to use those timeless features in the land they find.  Don't send out the bulldozers and flatten it out prior to shaping what they want rather than what they find.

On the other hand everyone who has seen it is saying great things about the Castle Course at St Andrews........

One guy who is disappointed is Edinburgh architect Richard LeSeur whom I saw during Tom Doak's tour of Archerfield/Renaissance last week - he was working on the project until Trump got involved...

[Kalen Braley]

I think the fundamental problem here is that DT wants to build something that is unlike what everyone esle has.   Hence the waterfalls, myraids of artificial looking hazards and bunkers, and the general "over the top" type of architecture.

So the real question is, how do you get into the head of Donald and change his perception on what good golf is.  I'm being serious here, perhaps a meeting/trip could be arranged with Mr. Keiser in Scotland to try to persuade him to think otherwise.  Mr. Keiser being a CEO and successful business man, perhaps DT would respect him enough to consider a different course of action.

[Brian_Ewen]

Surely the course in the dunes will pretty much route itself ? .

So will the real challenge not be , to build something special with the more inland 18 ? .

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

There are 15 or so great courses to learn from within a few hours of the site. It will be a challenge to not build a great course on that site. The holes are there waiting to be grassed in.

[Forrest Richardson]

Brian E. — Having written an entire book on the art of routing, your comment is a daggar aimed at my typing fingers, heart and the very soul of my literary mind.

Do you truly believe that a routing happens all by itself with no thinking of man, no intellect and no creativity?

[Brian_Ewen]

Forrest
Sorry , a tad harsh , and no I dont .

But I think there is already an expectation that the links course will be great .

And an equal expectation that the second course will just be that .

[Jim Nugent]

Some quick advice, from a neophyte:

1.  Try to move little earth, if possible;
2.  Don't build any waterfalls;
3.  Allow for plenty of ground game options;
4.  Don't be afraid of blind shots;
5.  Fire Fazio.  Hire one of the archies who posts on GCA.com

[Bill_McBride]

Brian E. — Having written an entire book on the art of routing, your comment is a daggar aimed at my typing fingers, heart and the very soul of my literary mind.

Do you truly believe that a routing happens all by itself with no thinking of man, no intellect and no creativity?

Forrest, the difference in routing between Muirfield and The Old Course proves your point exactly.  Both are incredible, each is completely different from the other.

[Forrest Richardson]

Thank you Brian.

Frankly, I am not hearing much of substance hear other than to follow the land. That is a fine approach...but are there not more lofty bits of advice that we might pass on about spirit, interest, and ideas that would be stellar to see at play on such a site?

[Kalen Braley]

Perhaps I only alluded to it with my prior post about Mr. Keiser.  But this was the essence of the post.  Have someone who DT might consider a peer inject him with the spirit and history of the game.  The key here is someone who DT would actually listen to.  If this post is about realistic advice then I think this would be a route to take.

But if its a hypothetical, then obviosuly any well schooled histoiran of the game could meet with him and take a trip together to try to win him over.

On another veen, how about mailing him some books that were written by the Golden Archies or even current architects who espouse the minimilastic view.

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