[ed_getka]

I had the good fortune to play at Plainfield this summer just before the Open over at Bethpage (Thanks Matt!). I think Plainfield is the perfect course for a 10 handicap like myself. It has a nice variety of holes, isn't super long, very good greens and surrounds, par 5's that make you think about your second shot (more than just go for it in 2 or not), etc...

Matt asked me for my opinion, so here it is for what its worth.

#1 Straightaway par 4 with lots of fairway rolls that keep you from seeing exactly where you want to go and keeps you off-balance on the tee. The caddy will remind you NOT to have your approach end up above the hole. After topping my tee shot off the forward markers  , and making a great first impression (and embarrassing the heck out of Matt), we were off.

#2 Par 4 straightaway with fairway dropping down in the second half to a crowned type green that falls off back left into a chipping area (a la Pinehurst#2).

#3 Par 3 over a pond. Passes the walk in the park test for scenic value, but otherwise an unremarkable hole. Unless they cut the pin back right when it can be tough to get close due to the proximity of the water and the way that back corner rises to send balls curving away unless properly struck (i.e. fade).

#4 Par 4 slight dogleg left uphill hole. Fairway bunkers on the left and approach is to a raised green that is well-bunkered front right. Classic risk/reward. Green is pretty much square which was interesting to see.

#5 Par 5 525yds rising and falling most of the way to the green. Again this makes committing to a shot tough (at least for someone with my handicap). The green appears to have fronting bunkers but they are actually 20-30 yds short of the green (nice visual trick).

#6 Par 3 Nice little hole with some decent internal contour.

#7 Par 4 Outstanding hole IMO. Slight dogleg left gradually going downhill to a green that slopes AWAY to back left. However, there is room to land short over the bunkers that appear to be greenside, but in reality are again about 30 yards short of the green.

#8 Par 5 Again another solid 3-shotter that requires you to think about each shot whether you lay up or not.

#9 Par 4 Heading back to the beautiful clubhouse this is a fairly short hole, but the green has plenty of internal contour to keep it interesting.

#10 Par 4 of the short variety. Blind tee shot over a crossing ridge down to the flat. Small pond right to keep big hitters who might try for the green honest. The better line is out to the left that is counter intuitive for a first timer. Out to the left opens up the green which is set on a diagonal and has a fair amount of SLOPE. Imperative to keep your ball below the pin when its in the front half of the green. One of my favorite holes here. The shot is right in front of you on the approach, knowing you have to stay below the hole (it can make for some funny looking swings ). The guys in my group thought the green was unfair, but I disagree.

#12 My favorite hole on the course. Par 5 dogleg left with fairway tumbling down about 250yds out where you can pick up some roll (or if you are Matt you fly over!). The hole has a stream/depression snaking along the right side of the fairway, crosses over in front of the green and then goes right down the left side of the green. There is fairway out to the right and short of the green that lets the aggressive player have a way to get home in two. The green is bisected in the back half by a mound, so being on the green in no way assures a 2 putt. I can't say enough about the par 5's at this course.

The rest of the course is very enjoyable also with #17 being another standout hole, finishing a little weakly for a strong player, but it was fine for me.

All in all it is a course I could be happy being a member at the rest of my life. I would never get bored there. There are many great championship courses in this country, but I don't have the game to enjoy playing them all the time. Plainfield is the perfect course for me (until my next infatuation ).

[Paul Richards]

Plainfield, to me, is one of those "hidden gems" (like Milwaukee CC) that are on everyone's top 100 lists, but almost nobody knows about them, or has visited.

[Mark_Fine]

Paul,
Plainfield suffers a bit in the same manner as Lehigh in that its location is right next to a more famous neighbor.  I haven't seen it for a few years but I have heard it has only gotten better since Gil's been there and it was pretty darn special before that.
Mark

[ed_getka]

What holes do you like there, and what features make them good in your opinion?

I am fairly clueless about routing, but the routing there seems like and excellent use of the land, although I understand some changes have occurred over the years.

[Tim Weiman]

Mark Fine,

Several months ago Sand Ridge Superintendent Jim Roney strongly suggested I go have a look at Gil Hanse's work at Plainfield. Jim doesn't volunteer that many things he thinks I should go see, so apparently he thought the work was exceptional.

[Mark_Fine]

Most of the work Gil does IS exceptional!  I just saw what he did at Century CC, an old Colt and Allison layout in NY and it was outstanding.  His work at Fenway nearby is unbelievable.  
I'm sure Plainfield's is no different.

Ed,
There aren't many holes I don't like at Plainfield other than maybe #10 which has a blind pond in the landing area to the right.  I had heard that pond might go away but apparently it is still there?  

The three non-Ross holes are probably the courses' weakest link.  

[ed_getka]

Mark,
  A ton of course history came by me that day and I know some holes were changed around, eliminated, replaced over time. I am going to hazard a guess at #13 and possibly #14 not being Ross (although 14 green could be). What are the  3 holes?

[Mark_Fine]

Yes it's the three on the backside beginning with I think #12??
Mark

[Patrick_Mucci]

They are # 13, 14, and # 15.

They replaced # 17 and # 18 which were taken for the practice range, and a par 4 and par 3 were combined to make # 12 I believe.

Ran thinks they are terrible holes,  I think they are good holes and bring out the best in a golfer, and often determine the outcome of a match

[BV]

They are # 13, 14, and # 15.

They replaced # 17 and # 18 which were taken for the practice range, and a par 4 and par 3 were combined to make # 12 I believe.

Ran thinks they are terrible holes,  I think they are good holes and bring out the best in a golfer, and often determine the outcome of a match

Correct

Plainfield is arguably #2 in New Jersey, certainly top 4.

Reality check.  They are not "terrible" holes.  They are different from the others, although # 15 is the least different and in no stretch of the imagination is a terrible hole. #13 is severe, but not a terrible hole, the restoration will restore much more strategy and #13 is the least interesting hole on the course, agreed.  It would go unnoticed on most courses, so it does not qualify for being a "terrible" hole.

[Jerry Kluger]

I think that a simple summary of Plainfield does not do it justice as so many of the holes have different options and a bounce here or there can make an enormous difference on a given day; yes I would play that course for the rest of my life without any hesitation.  The fact is that Plainfield to me is far more interesting than Baltusrol but it does not have the history with the US Open that Baltusrol has so it will usually be ranked behind it.    

[Scott_Burroughs]

I liked #13.  The best angle into the green is the left side of the fairway, so as to avoid being behind the trees on the right, and being on the left side of the fairway you must avoid the bunker on that side.

#14 is the poorest hole, IMHO, and I wasn't the only one who felt that way.  Ross built plenty of long par 3's, but do you think he had in mind a 210+ carry over water on them? No way.  Only way to hold green is with a 5-wood, if you have one (which I don't).


In Ed's rundown of the holes, I'm surprised he didn't mention #11 and #16, two of the best holes on the back nine.  #11 is a short par 3 to the most severe green on the course, along with #10.  The small but severe green is perched up high, falling away on all sides, and the tee is at about the same elevation, hitting from a high spot to a high spot.  Do NOT go long!

#16 is the par 5 with the famous cross bunkers about 150 yards out that you can't see over.  Very Tillie-like.  It takes two good pokes to get it over them.  The fairway approach area left of the green from 150 yards out up through the green is being restored (not finished yet), so the option of bailing left of the cross bunkers will be avialable, but an sidehill lie and tougher angle in is the result of bailing.  It is currently trees and rough.  Similar in concept to the 7th hole at Rolling Green (but on the right side), that Mayday Malone wants desperately restored.

#18 is an awkward hole, as an iron or fairway wood off the tee will only suffice around the funky dogleg.  Tough green, though.

[Bob_Farrell]

#13 was a better hole years ago before it was damaged by floodwaters and redone. No it doesn't fit in with the Ross style, but I always thought it was a good hole.

#8 is my favorite. You really have to bust one to get to the green in two, and if you miss the fairway, it's virtually impossible, either left or right.

#12 is a terrific par 5. The only chance to get home in 2 from the blue is to absolutely kill one, and even then, trying to hit a wood, or a 1 or 2 iron into that small green is NOT the smartest thing to try.

I was surprised that Ed minimized #2. It's a real good par 4. The green is almost the same as #11, which as Scott pointed out, is very taxing. And don't go over it.

I would much rather play Plainfield than Baltusrol any day. It is definitely in the top 4 in NJ.

[Matt_Ward]

Ed G:

It was a grand time indeed when all of us got together at Plainfield right before the US Open at Bethpage.

Plainfield, in my mind, is the #2 course in the Garden State. The range of holes, twists and turns,and the manner by which the greens move so neatly, makes for an interesting day of golf.

I really enjoy a number of holes -- the 12th is grand par-5 and one of the finest of its kind that I have ever played. There are many decisions to make and a range of options for all levels of players.

Kudos to Gil Hanse for the work he's done and to the club leadership in having the strength to follow-up on taking out trees that seriously impaired the Ross vision.

I agree with Mark -- sometimes it's very easy to forget the qualities of Plainfield because it is so close to Baltusrol which gets plenty of attention in having hosted multiple Opens and the upcoming '05 PGA.

One last thing -- it's too bad that Plainfield opted out of the '07 Sr. Open,but I can fully understand given how that event always seems to do poorly in the NY/NJ metro area since golf fans have become spoiled in serving as host to numerous US Opens and PGA Championships.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I'm still curious why they opted out of the '07 Senior Open.  I thought their switch from a bad situation of the '05 version conflicting with the PGA nearby at Baltusrol helped them.  I would also think that a championship at a different venue than Baltusrol would help.  How did the Senior PGA do last year at Ridgewood?  Or the 1987 Women's Open at Plainfield?

[Jerry Kluger]

New Jersey is certainly a special place for golf and demonstrates why you need to differentiate between the classic versus modern courses, i.e.  Pine Valley, Plainfield, Somerset Hills, Baltusrol, etc. versus Hidden Creek, Galloway, Metedeconk etc.  These are great all great venues and give you great variety but there is clearly a difference between the old and the new.  

[peter mcknight]

For those who desire more information, check out their website, which must have been launched recently.

www.plainfieldcc.com

They have posted their yardage book in the visitor's section.  Their website may be one of the best from a private club standpoint.  Interlachen, venue for the Solheim Cup, is also very good.

The best holes on the course are clearly no.1 (up there with Oak Hill and Aronimink openers) and no.12, a spectacular par 5.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

I don't know that they opted out of the Senior Open, only switched dates.

I believe a Television conflict with Wimbleton and some club issues were the primary factor in moving the dates.

BV,

I Agree with you, #'s 13,14 and 15 aren't bad holes at all.
In fact, I have great memories of those three holes.  
Ran, unfortunately still has nightmares.

[redanman]

BV,

I Agree with you, #'s 13,14 and 15 aren't bad holes at all.
In fact, I have great memories of those three holes.  
Ran, unfortunately still has nightmares.

It's a matter of compared to what.  

You are also right on the switch, but the reason I heard was another golf tone-a-mint, I don't remember the details.  Something about competing for golf fans.

An interesting note, the first "A great hole" by the USGA (Their monthly feature) in Golf Journal from Plainfield that I ever saw was #13.  Seroiusly.

My personal favorities  at Plainfield are#1, #2, #4, #7, #11, #12, #15, #16, #17.  Quite a collection of par 4's, so varied.

[Mark_Fine]

Jerry K,
Not to get off the topic but what is the difference?  I wonder if Ben Crenshaw would beg to differ with you that you can't compare his designs with some of his mentors?  
Mark

[Scott_Burroughs]

Pat and Bill,

Matt mentioned that PCC opted out of the '07 Open, which WAS the switched year from the original '05 date.  The reason that they switched from '05 to '07 is that Baltusrol is hosting the '05 PGA Championship, which will take luster (and fan interest) from a Senior Open at PCC that same summer not more than a month or so apart.   I was wondering why they opted out of the '07 Open, as I didn't know that.  Matt explained lack of interest in that area.  I wondered how the Senior PGA did last year as a comparator.

[Matt_Ward]

Scott et al:

The inside story on why Plainfield opted out of hosting the '07 Senior Open comes down to a quote from a high placed source -- "You can't have a "B" event in an "A" market."

The NY / NJ metro area has only been able to really generate interest in the highest of events -- the US Open, PGA, etc. The Senior Open is really much less since the time when Ridgewood hosted the championship in 1990 and at that time it featured the first year of eligibility for Jack Nicklaus. Even the PGA Tour's Buick Classic at Westchester CC rarely does super well at the gate unless Tiger is front and center. There's just too much going on for the sports fan to zero in on golf alone in the immediate Big Apple area. That has not been the case with other locations such as Des Moines and others in the USA who have hosted the Senior Open. Those mid-size communities have totally embraced the event and the community support has been really something to behold.

Selling tickets to the event is never an easy deal since the event usually falls in either very late June or early July. Corporations clearly are less interested as the summer season really kick into gear and many families are also looking elsewhere to go.

In addition, the Garden State hosts two Senior event already -- the NFL and the former Instinet Classic. Both draw poorly because the fields are rather nondescript. There are also a plethora of other events in the immediate area that also drain fan interest -- Sybase LPGA, Lightpath Sr Tour, etc, etc..

When Plainfield hosted the '87 Women's Open the event was severely impacted by poor weather. If a remember correctly the ultimate winner was not determined until Tuesday becauss of consistent heavy thunderstorms. The course had the smell of a horse farm because of the usage of so much straw. I also believed the event fared poorly from the standpoint of revenues earned.

Plainfield is a superb course. That isn't an issue. However, hosting major league events requires significant resources besides the pedigree of the course. Plainfield is rather limited in its logisitical capacities and even though they used Plainfield West -- a 9-hole course next door, for parking the like, the crampness is clearly present.

You also have the issue in getting the course back in terms of overall conditioning. That can cost plenty of $$.

The Senior Open peaked during the time frame of Palmer, Trevino, Nicklaus and Player. I don't know if it will ever return to those glory days. In the long run I believe Plainfield made the correct decision.

[Bob_Farrell]

Matt:

I have to agree with you. I don't think Plainfield wanted an event so close to the PGA being held here in NJ, and this was a way out. I think your assessment of a "B" tournament is also quite correct. This area has been spoiled by Baltusrol hosting the Opens and now the upcoming PGA.

The Senior Open at Ridgewood didn't do that well. The names brought out some people, but overall, the fans of NJ want to see the big boys.

Logistically I don't see that Plainfield has the space to host an Open from either tour anyway. They were able to get away witht he Ladies Open, but where would you put the garndstands for large crowds on the 9th or the 18th regardless of whether they switched the nines as they did for the ladies? If you think about the layout, where do they put ANY grandstands? There is not a whole lot of room for them at PCC.

Just as well. It all means the course will still be itself the next time I play there. Can't be too soon!!

BF

[Matt_Ward]

Bob:

Good points.

Let me also mention that Plainfield is really a good example of a superb course that doesn't have all the logitical necessities in hosting a major event of the magnitude of an Open or PGA.

Clearly, that doesn't mean the course is not a quality layout of the highest order. However, hosting major events in the 21st century is far beyond that of what it was like years ago.

In addition, the NY metro area sports fans has just too many alternatives to consider for their time and $$. The Senior Open is really a footnote for the attention of those in my area of the country. It was big when Nicklaus, Trevino, Palmer and Player were still competitive but today you get what ... Gilder, Irwin and a bunch of other non-decsript although talented players. YAWN -- YAWN -- ZZZZZZZZZ.

Unless the event is an Open or PGA (with Tiger in the field) the casual sports fan will likely be elsewhere in the NY metro area. It's to the benefit of the USGA even to the PGA and LPGA Tours to consider other locations that are NOT so big because this will help bolster community wide appeal for an event as it showed clearly with the Senior Open when it was in Des Moines and the Women this year at Prairie Dunes.

[ed_getka]

Scott,
 I didn't mention the rest of the holes as I felt my post was already long and boring enough. Omitting #11 was an oversight on my part. Don't be SHORT either with that steep front that falls down into the fronting bunker. 3 of the group I was in came up short and they all paid the price because they tried to get too cute with a front pin and kept having their ball roll back to them. They felt the hole was unfair, but again like #11 it is a short hole with the problem right in front of you, so its just a matter of committing to the shot and executing (easier said than done with my handicap ).

#16 I thought was a very good second shot hole with the cross bunkering you mentioned and the route to go around for higher handicappers that is being brought back. The green and surrounds seemed sort of uncharacteristic of the course to me for some reason.

Its too bad the Senior Open won't be held there IMO. I think the golfing public seeing the course on TV could give them an appreciation for the older style courses that have so much interest. In the last two years I found Salem CC and Prairie Dunes to be much more interesting than the other Open/PGA venues.

I am looking forward to playing Bethpage in the future, but I would never want a steady diet of that course as I would have a perpetual migraine from grinding so hard to survive.

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