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James Bennett

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Road Hole at TOC - originally a double green?
« on: April 01, 2007, 09:26:57 AM »
In the reverse OC, we played to the Road hole green as our first hole.  And of course, two of us went onto the footpath between road and green.  I am happy to say I got down in two for my par.  Others were less fortunate.

As I understand it, the first green is a relatively recent creation (perhaps 150 years old).  Its creation also led to the movement of the 18th tee from a small hill behind the now #1 green to its location near 17 green (I think I have repeated Sean Walsh's comment accurately here).

My question is - did #17 green get used as a double green?  It could be played to the eastern end for the first, and the western end for the 17th.  Quite safely in fact, given the angles and the road hole bunker.  But, was it a double green originally?  If not, what was used instead for the two holes?

James B
« Last Edit: April 01, 2007, 09:27:52 AM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Marty Bonnar

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Re:Road Hole at TOC - originally a double green?
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 06:28:44 PM »
James,
I am still unable to answer your question with any real conviction (you aussies know about 'convict'ion, don't you!? ;)) Harhar!

However, here's Randa's take on the subject:

"The creation of a separate first green in 1870 eventually led to the present course being permanently adopted for major events, although records for both courses continued into the last decade of the 19th century. In modern times the old left-hand course has occasionally been played for a few weeks in winter.

Constant use and natural erosion over hundreds of years forged a widening path through the dunes, heather and whin bushes. The inward holes of today's course mark the original line followed out and back by the earliest golfers and the gradual widening of the double fairways has brought more land on the seaward side into play.

Most bunkers are in natural hollows where the thin surface of topsoil was broken to reveal the sand beneath. Some have been refined for modern use and in the early 1900s additional bunkers were put in to the right of several outward holes to replace the bushes which had once flourished. A bunker in the wide expanse of the shared first and last fairways was removed in 1914 and six new championship tees have been created to cope with the onslaught of today's big- hitting professionals".


Fergawdsakes, don't let Shivvy-baby see this thread...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Road Hole at TOC - originally a double green?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2007, 03:03:18 AM »
Martin

I have a thread for that secret Shivas matter later.

However, the comment above that the original line of play was the southern side of the course (the railway line side, not the sea side) certainly rings true after the reverse TOC!  That was where we wanted to play on so many holes.

I made the comment on an earlier thread, but it is worth repeating.  It appears that the key components to creating the strategic course that we now know and love as TOC was two-fold - firstly reversing the routing and secondly adding the width (which would not be used as much with the left hand routing).

Any other comments on #17 green as a double green?  Farnsworth, do you know anything on this one?

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Adrian_Stiff

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Re:Road Hole at TOC - originally a double green?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2007, 03:57:52 AM »
James- Yes the 17th was originally a double green, played from the current 1st tee and from the current 3rd tee. The sea used to come in much more in the early (Allen Robertson)days. When Tom took over as keeper of the green, there was new land in the making and he saw the opportunity to develop the new 1st green that happened 1870. The very original routing ie pre 1870 was much more up the centre and not really the 'left hand route' especially from holes 3 onwards. With the number of rounds increasing there was a need for not only wider greens but wider fairways, hence the right hand routing.
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James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Road Hole at TOC - originally a double green?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2007, 04:38:43 AM »
Thanks Adrian, your historic knowledge has filled a gap for me, for the second time (your comments about Painswick originally being 9 holes also explained the peculiar adjacent par 5's on the current 8 and 9 at Painswick).

If you are about in the Leeds vicinity over this week, please IM me.  thanks again

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)