Tired Templates?

[Steve Burrows]

Is there a 18th hole template being over used in golf design?  

Long benders to the left with water bordering the side, daring you to challenge the hazard to give you shorter shot and, likely, a better angle for your second shot.  Doral, TPC of Sawgrass, or newer courses like this weeks PGA tour stop at Redstone have remarkably similar finishing holes.  Or how about mirror images of this situation, like the 18th at Crooked Stick?

No doubt they are stern tests of golf, and can certainly provide drama, but are they too predictable?  Is this a trend in design, or is this something that only seems apparent because of its visibility on the Tour?

[ed_getka]

I don't know if it is a trend. I stay away from courses that make use of lots of water as part of the "strategy". I prefer to be able to hit the ball and try to make up for my wayward shots, not just take a penalty stroke. Given the number of courses that make it a point of advertising that their layout has 11 holes with water in play I would imagine holes like you describe are pretty common on modern courses.

[cary lichtenstein]

I would have to agree, over used.

These holes can ruin your round as it almost did today, but it made for an exciting finish.

[Lloyd_Cole]

On the tour this hole is certainly overused. The long right bail out is almost always the smart play - Woods and Singh love it over there and 9 times out of ten they have a relatively simple shot in.

[jim_lewis]

Steve:

You have touched on one of my pet peeves in golf course architecture. I call it the "Pebble Beach syndrome". It seems that if there is a large body of water on the course (or if one can be created), many architects are determined to wrap the 18th hole around it. My guess is that the owner often insists on that finish. It certainly is not limited to tour courses, although you can add TPC Sugarloaf and Bay Hill to your list. I see it often.  Granted, it can make for an exciting finish, but I would like to see more architects/owners resist that obvious temptation.

[Peter Zarlengo]

Maybe its a Pebble Beach effect. I know that its a par 5 and not a 4, but many would want to emulate what could be the best finishing hole in golf. The long and bending nature requires precision and in the stroke play format that people have seemed to embrace allows for the golfer to never to be too sure.

But I would probably say that it gets a little boring playing 18th holes that require similar shots time after time.

Why dont more tour players bail out on these holes? Or is the mentality of the tour player birdie or bust.  It seems to me that if you arent firing at every flag, you arent going to be playing much longer.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I'll take the contrarian view.

Everyone seems to admit that these "template" finishing holes provide excitement and test the good player as well as any other holes when a match or tournament is on the line.  How much can you trust your swing?  There are bailouts that make par more or much more difficult but possible. Generally the player needs to shape the ball one way or the other or play less then driver to prevent running out of fairway.  There are certain strategies in playing these holes that work.

If so many of us (myself included) love the Macdonald/Raynor templates I think its a bit unfair not to give the same benefit to others.  I do understand that the use of water is not necessarily the best hazard but given the perfectly maintained sand not-hazards today the only alternative is 6 inch rough or water.

[Andy Troeger]

I would tend to agree with Mr. Childs on this one, although personally my favorite finishing hole is a risk/reward par five.

That said, for those of you who do not like the redundancy, what would you suggest they have as the finisher instead? Remember you have to choose at least 2-3 options

[Adam Clayman]

Augusta Nat'l should make the 18th a cape hole.  
 Funny how Pebble's never feels like any of those modern course. Even with the faux rock wall.

I remember gigling to myself as we approached the 18th at VN.

[Paul Payne]

Steve,

You nailed the template and yes I am tired of them: long bending left, water bordering left side, blah blah...

One thing I don't like is that the template does not offer a touring pro nearly the challenge it poses for an average golfer. Most of us will be forced to lay up and take our chance at getting on in three. A pro will go for it if prompted because worst case is he will be wet and take a drop probably some distance further ahead or better yet he will bounce off the far bank and take a drop near the hole. Many of us may not be able to make the far bank.

I would much rather see the same shape hole with heavy rough in the bend rather than water. Seems to me this would level the playing field some. Any of us or a pro would suffer a more similar fate if we go for it and put it in the very tall grass. You never know, could be a reasonable lie or could be hell.

In the end I think that offers far more risk than the water hazard.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The template has been there a long time but Pete Dye made it a staple.  I would think TOUR pros would be extremely tired of them.

[McCloskey]

The Champions Tour had an exciting finish today without a cape hole finisher.   4 tough finishing holes though.
Ocean  Hammock, I think was the name or Hammock Dunes.
Looked like a nice course on TV.

[Jeff Doerr]

This thread makes me think of playing on the way down to Bandon...