The Golf Digest Top 100 List is now posted

[Paul Richards]

For some reason, the links to the GD list and to the individual state lists don't work here on my blackberry at the Magic Kingdom.

Would it be possible for someone to post the actual list here?      

And, for good measure, illinois' list as well?



Cheers!!!!

[Doug Ralston]

What are you folks complaining about? Not a single Kentucky course in either list ...... again!  

Doug

[Andy Troeger]

Paul,
The file is a PDF, so I'm not sure if that can be pasted. The state-by-state lists are not online yet either.

If you can get to www.golfdigest.com its pretty easy to find from there.

[Geoffrey Childs]

I was pretty surprised by how few courses were dropped and how few courses made it. I would have thought the following would have made it, alphabetical only:

Alotian
Ballyneal
Bayonne
Black Rock
Black Mesa
Friar's Head
Lakota Canyon
Kingsley
Kapalua Plantation
Quarry at Giants Ridge
Eastward Ho
Myopia Hunt
Paa Ko Ridge
Royal New Kent
Tobacco Road
Redlands Mesa
Yale

That's 17 courses which would have been comparable to 2 years ago.

I've got to say that I don't think Tobacco Road belongs in the same breath as any of the others that I am familiar with on that list.  I can see the fascination with it but for me TR simply does not work well as a golf course.  It has too many holes or shots that do not work and on top of that I think its a very poorly engineered golf course. I realize a lot of people here have put it into cult status for some reason and I like quirk more then most even on GCA but not Tobacco Road. To mention it in the same universe as Engineers, Eastward Ho, Yale, Myopia, Kingsley Club and a TON of others is heresy.

[Paul Richards]

Geoff

Thanks but that's the link that I can't retrieve on my blackberry,
So if anyone can post it, I'd really appreciate it.

[Doug Sobieski]

Tullymore.....hahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

Agreed, wholeheartedly. I scratched my head when it appeared on the Golfweek list a few years ago. If it's on the GD list, that's equally odd.  

[Guy Phelan]

Tom,

As I am still a newbie to the board, would it be possible to summarize the differences between the panels?


Thanks, Jeff

Golf Digest = Microsoft
GolfWeek = Apple

Totally opposite

[Ryan Farrow]

Well, to just name two Hucks, and mind you, I haven't played hardly any of these, Riviera 61? Is Victoria National (no disrespect JK) 40 spots better than Riviera? Muirfield Village at 18? Is that 20 spots better than SFGC? I'm not sure.

Riviera's placement is odd, granted.

SFGC, not so sure.  I haven't seen it post-Doakification.  Prior to that, I wouldn't argue with those who don't rate it all that highly - it's not everyone's cup of tea.

And James, we'll see how long I last.  As one of the few and the proud Golf Digest panelists participating here, I usually defend our list for an hour or two before I get beaten down.  I may not even try that hard this time... it's rather counterproductive - like being a Christian missionary in Baghdad.  But we'll see.....

 

Perhaps this could explain the poor rankings for Riviera and SFGC (from RON):

"Fazio has also been involved in improvements to No. 7 Merion, No. 21 Butler National and No. 61 Riviera, where, among other things, he recaptured a long-abandoned alternate fairway on the par-4 eighth.

A similar reclamation just occurred at No. 37 San Francisco Golf Club, where three holes cast aside more than 50 years ago (in anticipation of a highway expansion) were recovered by Tom Doak,..."

A similar reclamation? Is this true?  

[Nick Pozaric]

What are you folks complaining about? Not a single Kentucky course in either list ...... again!  

Doug

what about #68?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tom Huckaby,  It is with great reluctance that I will join in the discussion.  I have been on the ratings panel for almost fifteen years.  There are some 800 of us.  When I first was on the panel there were only about 300 or so.  I think years ago most of us were older guys.  Consequently the "classic" designs were ranked higher than newer courses.  The newer folks include a lot of younger panelists.  They bring with them differing ideas about what constitutes good design.  Ten years ago I doubt if Tullymore would have made the list.  I love the course but personally don't think it is top 100 quality.  Nevertheless, younger panelists I know would rank it higher than I did.  

I will second what Huck said that the difference between 35 and 85 is miniscule.  Good grief there are 17000 courses in this country.  Don't you think that being in the top 100 is enough?  

Most of us rate a course after only playing it once.  I have played Tullymore about five times.  The first time it knocked my socks off.  It is a stunner.  After a few times I was able to be more objective.  Hence my ratings fell a bit.  No rating system is perfect and GD's is not either. And it is not objective but reflects the feelings of panelists in a specific time.  Just wait two years Tullymore will probably drop out and some other newer course will appear.
 

[Brian Cenci]

Missing - Lawsonia
Tullymore in the top 100?

Yea, Tullymore at #14 public is an absolute joke!  In Michigan I put it behind: Arcadia Bluffs, Greywalls, Forest Dunes, Bay Harbor, Shephard's Hollow, Red Hawk to name a few.

Also, Greywalls should be on the public list.

Glad to see Eagle Eye finally gets a mention and cracks the list.

[John Kirk]

I believe Golf Digest has a rule where courses need to be open for either 3 or 5 years before they are eligible for consideration.  That's why The Alotian Club isn't on the list, in my opinion.  I haven't played it, but since Golf Digest ranked it as the 3rd best golf retreat in America, I expect it to debut high on the list.

[Mitch St. Peter]

Two Comments:


1st - Why rank each course individually.  Is Butler National (#21) discernably better than Plainfield (#85)?  I'd take Plainfield any day.  I know some would disagree.  

I propose they create a first 10, second 10 or first 25 and second 25 so as to not be nit picky about differences in the quality of the greatest American course (i.e. list names of courses alphabetically under these headings).  I suppose one could do this anyway but it is ridiculous to quantify the  difference between say NGLA and Cypress Point.

2nd - Something is wrong with the process (and by no means do I mean any disprespect to the members of these clubs) when Wade Hampton is #15 and Mayacama (#85) is beating out courses like Maidstone and Ocean Forest.  

Basically - I've lost a lot of confidence in the GD rankings.  They have become Fazio-fied and have become too interested in reshuffling and trading courses that have stood the test of time for a century.  

Who has the best rankings out now?

[Jon Spaulding]

Don't these ratings have something to do with selling magazines and/or filling space once they run out of tips and stupid drills to help me hit a draw?

Any list that has Princeville in the same galaxy as SF Club; and leaves Rustic off the public list.....seems a bit out of Spinal Tap, and should probably be taken in the same vein.

[Brian Cenci]

Also...no Holston Hills too on the list, that's even more of a joke.  But....don't worry Tullymore is in the top 100 public and private.

-Brian

[Guy Corcoran, Jr]

This was in the NY Post yesterday, sorry for the late post if this had already been discussed but had a tough time getting in to the website yesterday.

Trump Tees Off At Golf Digest

March 29, 2007 -- GOLF Digest has cut Donald Trump's posh Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach from its latest list of "America's 100 Greatest Courses," and the furious developer says he unfairly got the chop because he refused to advertise in the mag.

"Golf Digest is a disgrace to their profession. They should be ashamed of themselves," Trump told Page Six. On its last list, Golf Digest, published by Conde Nast, placed the 27-hole West Palm Beach course on 200-plus acres at No. 84. This year it was banished, he said, as a result of a tense Nov. 28 meeting he had at Trump Tower with the magazine's publisher, Thomas Bair.

"Bair came to my office and told me the only way I'll get the ratings I deserve was if I advertised. I said, 'No thanks' and sent him on his way," Trump recalled. "Can you believe it? The magazine had already told me that I have built the best new courses in this country in years - but then they say I have to advertise to make it in? It's unbelievable." Trump said Golf Digest honchos have also been down on him because he featured the editors of rival Golf Magazine in episodes of "The Apprentice."

Bair refused to comment, but Golf Digest editor Jerry Tarde said of Trump, "I think he's kidding. He knows it never happened. Nobody can buy their way on the list."

Gold Digest flack Andrew Katcher said the ratings were tabulated from the opinions of 800 players, and insisted, "It just came down to the numbers and nothing that Trump International did wrong. In fact, Trump International missed by just a few hundredths of a point."

Trump was further infuriated when he learned that Golf Digest had gloated about his course's demise in a story pitch it made to Page Six. In that e-mail, Katcher crowed: "I suspect Mr. Trump will be extremely displeased when he learns of this . . . Depending on what he says, we thought this could be a fun - and potentially biting - piece."

Trump responded to that: "They are using my name to try to get publicity for themselves. It's despicable they send out a release to announce Trump is not on their list. For shame!" The club, where memberships go for $350,000 and up, was rated by Florida Golf Magazine as "the best course in Florida."

[Josh_Mahar]

Dear Golf Digest,

Where's the love?

Sincerely,
Wild Horse Golf Club

Seriously, we may be overrated in the Golfweek list, but I think we can hold our own with any of those courses on the public list.  Guess we don't advertise enough?

Maidstone-73 and Flint hills 49-- That is a joke!

[Adam Clayman]

Josh, IMO, You are not over-rated on GW Greatest list. However, Should you be under pressure to soften the course for the masses, you will drop like a stone.

I spoke with Robert and he told how well the course wintered. I'm looking forward to my many rounds out there this year.

[Lloyd_Cole]

Tom,

As I am still a newbie to the board, would it be possible to summarize the differences between the panels?


Thanks, Jeff

Golf Digest = Microsoft
GolfWeek = Apple

Mike,

Does that equate Whitten with Gates, Klein with Jobs?

Neither of the golf guys are that bad.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'll give Noel's question to Geoffrey a try, and I'll even throw Trump Bedminster into the mix.

Boston National/Kingsley Club - Tossup, both superb and should be within the Top 10-15 courses modern

Trump National - Should be within the first 25-30 courses modern

Galloway National - Should be within the first 35-40 courses modern.


The GD Top 100 listing has lots of room for debate.

The GD Top 100 PUBLIC listing is mind-boggling.

Going back to Boston vs Kingsley, if forced to choose I'd pick Boston by a smidgeon, largely due to the daringly different design.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike,

Could you do me a favor and list the Fazio courses on the Golfweek list compared to the ones on the Digest list...It would be interesting to see the duplication.

Funny that you think Digest is mind boggling and then post that Trump National is better than Ballyneal.  I haven't seen either course in person and know better.

[Mike_Cirba]

Mike,

Could you do me a favor and list the Fazio courses on the Golfweek list compared to the ones on the Digest list...It would be interesting to see the duplication.

Funny that you think Digest is mind boggling and then post that Trump National is better than Ballyneal.  I haven't seen either course in person and know better.

John,

I said that the GD Top 100 PUBLIC listing is mind-boggling.  Without going back to it at the moment, I think I must have did the raised-eyebrowed "Huh?!?" at least a dozen times while reading through it.

I never said that Trump National is better than Ballyneal.   Unfortunately, I haven't played Ballyneal so I have no basis for comparison.

Please take the time to read my posts accurately before summarily jumping in to misrepresent me.  

[Sean Leary]

Sahalee and Eugene make big jumps.  Maybe trees are becoming "in" again.  I like both greatly, but Top 100?

Princeville on ANY list is always the most shocking to me..  Is that RTJ II's only course on the list?

[Anthony_Nysse]

How can Point O Woods not even be rated int he Top 25 courses in the state of Michigan? Courses like Timberstone, Elk Ridge, The Bear, Eagle Eye and Barton Hills are in a league below POW. This rating thing has gotten a little out of hand. POW was a fix on the list since it's inception and fell off in 2005 and now it's not even in the Top 25 in the State? Something is VERY wrong....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Mike_Cirba]

Per my friend John K's request, here are the Fazio courses on the respective Golf Digest Top 100 listing, and the Golfweek Top 100 Modern Listing.  

It's interesting on the face of it that while Fazio has 17 courses in the Golfweek Modern list, he has a full 14 on the Golf Digest listing that combines both classic and modern designs.

GolfWeek Modern Top 100 Fazio Courses

8  Shadow Creek (27 on GD)
18 Wade Hampton (15 on GD)
24 Dallas National (59 on GD)
25 World Woods PB
32 Galloway National (74 on GD)
34 Black Diamond (67 on GD)
36 Karsten Creek
37 Quail Hollow
38 Briggs Ranch
48 Victoria National (22 on GD)
49 Trump National
55 Preserve (95 on GD)
57 Whisper Rock Upper
59 Butler National (really mostly George, but...21 on GD)
76 Forest Creek North
80 Flint Hills (49 on GD)
83 Vaquero

Golf Digest Top 100 classic & modern Fazio courses

15 Wade Hampton (18 on GW)
21 Butler (59 on GW)
22 Victoria National (48 on GW)
27 Shadow Creek (8 on GW)
47 Quarry La Quinta
49 Flint Hills (80 on GW)
59 Dallas National (24 on GW)
60 Sand Ridge
67 Black Diamond (34 on GW)
74 Galloway National (32 on GW)
81 Estancia
90 Hudson National
91 Sage Valley
95 Preserve (55 on GW)

Interesting that 5 of the 14 TF courses that make the Golf Digest Top 100 don't even make the Golfweek Top 100 Modern.  

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