Danny:
So nice of you to join us. How many of those stellar 100 posts you have made have been on a topic you started, I wonder, as opposed to pithy coments.
You didn't make those remarks here, of course. You know where you did, so be a man and stop pretending you didn't.
Thommo:
I would say it is poor understanding. It's a green that is maybe 15 yards across. It would need a pretty exact fade to hold it on perhaps the firmest green on the course, and considering the number of players who end up with the ball back at their feet at the base of the valley alongside, not very smart I would have said.
From my one round with you I wouldn't say your game veers from extremely poor to quite good - maybe quite wild to more controlled is more apt.
James:
I'll be happy too.
"I didn't really want to list examples as it would likely end up in a highly technical and dull 'it does/it doesn't' argument (and the kids are running amok and I don't have time)."
There's one you missed. Here's another;
"Although there are a surprising amount of blind and semi-blind shots, which are arguably overdone (not that I'm in the mood for an argument)"
So you start a post but then can't be bothered to elaborate your thoughts, assuming you actually had any, since that is quite a good cover up in itself.
Here's something else:
"Do you agree there is often less thought involved in the recovery shots at StAB. Given the transition from green to the often vast short grass surrounds is regularly level and any movement around the greens usually fairly constant, was the construction perhaps too minimalist?"
That's a direct quote from you, in case you can't remember. My response, which of course you didn't answer;
The fallaway front and behind the first green is regularly level?
The right to left slope to the right of the second green is regularly level and fairly constant?
The gigantic upslope in front of the third green followed by the enormous fallaway at the rear of the the third green is replicated elsewhere?
The bump in front of the the 7th green?
The curvature around the 8th green?
How are the recovery shots around 10 replicated elsewhere?
Here are a few peoples' responses on the thread that you couldn't be bothered articulating your position on;
From James Bennet:
You said you chose to use a six-iron every time, whilst others might go with a putter every time. How often did you get up and down using this approach? Could you have done better by playing a different shot - perhaps a pitch on some occasions?
Perhaps this range of greenside recovery options and choices should be viewed as similar to a 'strategic' golf hole whereby an easier route can be taken that avoids the bunkers, but makes a par more difficult. And perhaps the addition of longer-grass at random spots at Dornoch adds a 'penal' aspect where such a hazard has to be avoided (by an aerial shot). The Dornoch approach reduces the recovery options occasionally, the US Open approach (excluding Pinehurst #2 of course) specifies a single recovery shot (a lob), and the St Andrews Beach allows the player to choose what they wish, even if it isn't necessarily the best approach.
So, the US Open approach requires the least thought (lob every time) and the St Andrews Beach approach requires the most thought. The other dimension is that Dornoch limits the options on occasion, forcing a player to vary his method. Whereas St Andrews Beach does not force this limitation as often.
From Thommo:
This may be the case for some but I found it quite the opposite. I was constantly tossing up between bump and run / putter / wedge options.
Much like James L I also found myself falling back on the same recovery shot (or club) around the greens on most holes.
However, this is more due to the fact that I lack the ability to hit some of the subtle shots demanded of me when I missed the green, not an inherent design flaw in the green complexes themselves.
Greens like 2,3,5,7,8,10,14,15 and 17 all seemed to me to have many options in mode of recovery, depending on where you missed and how adept you are at executing a certain shot type.
From David Elvins:
I think that one reason that a lot of players go back to their default recovery shot is that the recovery shots are so hard. The good player will vary his recovery shots to get within 3-6 feet of the pin. THe slightly less confident player will always use his most trusted club to make sure he gets on the green or within 10 feet of the pin.
There are many "risk/reward" possibilities in the recovery play at St Andrews Beach. And often no right answer.
So it would seem there are a number of people who disagree with your opinion.
I am not using anything to cover up lack of knowledge or abject laziness.
I have provided numerous examples a number of times on a number of topics that you - and others - have simply chosen to ignore because it didn't suit your preconceived positions.
You would also find there is plenty of sensible discussion to be had if you don't deliberately attempt to selectively quote me or ascertain - mistakenly, of course - what my thoughts are in order to make silly points in order to support a weak or non-existent position.