News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« on: March 22, 2007, 02:23:18 PM »
Ok, I'm stuck in Hamburg airport with my 50-seater plane's takeoff delayed 4 hours :( So thoughts have been drifting to golf, and I wonder what people's thoughts are on the changes at Carnoustie.
I don't mean widening fairways or thinning out rough - I don't know if this will happen although I imagine they will to a degree.

No, what I'm talking about are the changes to a) the trees and b) the area between the 17th tee and 18th green/1st tee.

a) firstly, by the open already they had already chopped the trees behind the 16th green, and rightly so - these trees were only planted a few years ago and looked out of place. Similarly the clump behind the 15th green, although I rather liked them. Chopping these both down had the added advantage of making room for new grandstand positions. But since 1999 they have done more chopping. Most noticeably all the trees behind the 6th green (down the right of the 7th) have gone. These were lovely old trees all leaning at an angle slightly due to the wind, and were perfectly in keeping with the trees all over the buddon army base and out towards the sea. The 15th and 16th trees were planted firs from scandinavia somewhere... but these trees were more natural I thought and in long lines - as I say the same as the ones all over the buddon ness. Just seems a pity to get rid of them when trees are a natural part of the courses in this area - just look at monifieth and panmure - both open final qualifying courses and both littered with trees. I'm all for tree removal when they're overgrowing the landscape but these we just a few trees here and there!

b) in days gone by, the 18th green surrounds were all closely mown... you missed the green either side or long and your ball kept rolling down a slope. Now they've put in mounding all around the back and right and covered it in long grass... and all the area short of the burn where van der velde had his fun has been raised into hills that are higher than the 17th tee which used to be the high point of the landscape. I'm not saying it looks bad, but I wouldn't have said it looks like the natural linksland they were clearly trying to achieve. This part of the course, like the start of st andrews, in natural flat linksland and was part of the character of carnoustie before they plonked in the huge hotel and started mounding.

I still think carnoustie is one of the greatest challenges in golf, and a great design - no only the routing in a giant C shape, but also the individual style of the course, right down to most of the tees being on extensions of the previous green's aprons. But I just think they maybe didn't need to keep tinkering with a masterpiece.

What say ye?

PS. I should say that I grew up playing Carnoustie so I know a fair bit about it! This isn't a 'I've seen some photos from my house in trinidad and i think they've ruined it' posts... :)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 02:26:13 PM by G Jones »

Rich Goodale

Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 03:31:13 PM »
The biggest change has been to the 3rd, which will be unrecognisable (at least off the tee) to the guys who last played there in 1999.

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 03:46:37 PM »
The biggest change has been to the 3rd, which will be unrecognisable (at least off the tee) to the guys who last played there in 1999.

Really? How has it changed? I speak as someone who hasn't played the course for a couple of years now... I have only walked bits of it and hence see the tree removal!

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 03:52:55 PM »
Is this Gordon Jones of Panmure?
Greetings Gordon, trust al is well.Will be over this summer hope to see you for a game.
cheers
stan

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 04:04:23 PM »
Hello Stan! Indeed it is! Yeah if you let me know in advance when you plan to be here I'll try to make a trip up from the big smoke. :)

I see you've been registered here since 2002! I only just discovered it while trying to avoid doing my work!

Look forward to hearing from you about possible games this summer,

laters,
Gordon

Rich Goodale

Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 04:25:10 PM »
Gordon

A bunker-laced ridge has been brought in/built diagonally (NW direction) from the dunes on the right, creating a real dilemma on the tee.  Carry the ridge and maybe have an easy pitch to the green, lay up short of the ridge and have a blind shot, or hit a long iron to the left, which opnes up the green.  I suspect most players will go for option C.  Think of 17 but shorter and without water........

Hawtree did the work (with John Philp, of course), and one of the finest semi-lurking archies on this board was involved.

For a visual, buy my book which comes out next week!

Richard


Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Carnoustie's changes from 1999
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2007, 09:27:41 PM »
Just played it -- it's an island of mounds in left center of 3rd fairway, plus more mounds impinging on the right. Now they will have to think on their tee shot, and with creek short of the green, going for the green from the tee is way too risky.