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Andrew Thomson

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2007, 09:43:56 AM »
Quote
I wasn't implying that at all. I'm saying that having my name attached to what I post is a valuable reminder not to let myself lapse into the kind of "anything goes" Internet norms that are encouraged by anonymity.
They wouldn't be anonymous to a select few people, and as such this sort of thing could be policed easily.

Having said that, I think its a silly idea.

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2007, 12:40:15 PM »
Use their own names but don't post their club names.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2007, 01:37:11 PM »
Tom,

I respect your candor and integrity, but I don't see much difference between a TEPaul post that says, "A super from a well-known East Coast club told me..." and the same information posted anonymously by the super himself.

I think we get enough quality information and opinion on this site that it shouldn't be necessary to re-open it to the potential abuses of anonymous opinion-mongering.

Someone with an ax to grind will inevitably take advantage of the privilege. Is the trade-off worth it?
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Ray Tennenbaum

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2007, 02:38:50 PM »
Some times on the Internet we lose sight of the fact that good conversation generally involves a certain degree of selectiveness in what one says or how one says it. It is not the end of the world to occasionally refrain from blasting forth The Truth as we see it even when it is ugly, contentious or offensive.

hear, hear.  nor does it require a great deal of creativity to make a statement with sufficient discretion to keep your job. not to mention it can be a salutary exercise.

Steve Okula

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2007, 02:40:59 PM »
No one should be allowed anaonymous posts, as stated above, it degrades the quality of the forum. Nothing is more infuriating than having one's posts mocked by some ignorant, gutless, phony hiding behind an alias.

If a GCS can't articulate his thoughts on this forum without jeopardizing his job then he probably won't last in the business anyway.
The small wheel turns by the fire and rod,
the big wheel turns by the grace of God.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2007, 03:34:54 PM »
I think Steve O says it best above.

Some examples I can think of today....
A supt loses his job when a specific archie comes in to redo a course and can come on the site and post anon....
An archie loses a job because a supt says he is not the guy....same thing....
As do most archies I have great respect for the supts and what they do...but the good ones have a passion for in many cases it is a thankless job....often overlooked by members while heaping priase on course conditions to the golf professional etc.....but there are many cases where archies alienate supts and vice versa.....it becomes the nature of the business.....for instance...say an owner ask the archie which supt he should choose from a list of 5.  whether the archies abstain or not the five candidates don't know that and 4 will harbor a twinge of distaste for the archie.....and as is often the case the owner uses the archie as a crutch when telling the other candidates they did not get the job......now do you think that archie will ever work on the course of the other 4 supts if they have a say???  
Politics suck.....
there are just too many issues that can arise if supts are allowed to post anon....IMHO
Mike
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2007, 09:32:59 PM »
Wayne:

If it's true that superintendents are really holding their tongues over the recent trend of the business then I think that's a shame, but they're not going to effect any change by posting their thoughts anonymously ... no one is going to take them seriously if they are afraid to speak up.

I do wish more superintendents would participate here, and say what they really think about the state of their art.  I'll try to encourage some of those I know in the months ahead.  But the fact that they don't participate now is probably telling us all we need to know -- their jobs really are always in jeopardy at the whim of a boss who doesn't understand what they do.

I guess it's no wonder that many of the good ones want to get into the construction end somehow.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 09:33:45 PM by Tom_Doak »

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2007, 06:16:45 PM »
I'm not sure that anonymous posting is any more or less credible than having a "delete" function on all our posts to remove our stupidity or sensitivities.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2007, 04:43:06 AM »
I don't know if laying it on the line can cost a super or archie or anybody his job or not.  In any case it doesn't alter my opinion.  If people are gonna be taken seriously by the entire board then the entire board should know who they are.  Using alter names would merely lead to "in" clicks.  This of course would mean that the phrase "take my/his word for it" would become prevalent.  

I realize I am not the brightest tool on the box, but I still struggle with poster's use of alter names, initials and what have you.  While I don't care enough to kick up a fuss I still don't understand what is so difficult about everyone putting their proper name up.  

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2007, 06:33:22 AM »
Tom,
In this day and age I would be more worried about speaking my mind under the guise of anonymity and having it exposed and suffering the embarrassment and consequences thereof than just embarrassing myself up front and honestly! ;)
I would think the innuendo of anonymity could be as damaging to a superintendent's position as comments made freely.  We are often the subject of rumor and mis-truths regardless.
Cheers,
Steve

TEPaul

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2007, 07:54:50 AM »
"Tom,
In this day and age I would be more worried about speaking my mind under the guise of anonymity and having it exposed and suffering the embarrassment and consequences thereof than just embarrassing myself up front and honestly!
I would think the innuendo of anonymity could be as damaging to a superintendent's position as comments made freely.  We are often the subject of rumor and mis-truths regardless.
Cheers,
Steve"

Steve:

Good point---very good point. What's that old saw? Something about the truth wil never hurt you.  

Good point.

At least I think it is. If for some odd reason your green chairman and members don't want to hear the truth then all I can say is; "May the great agronomic DoDo bird in the sky defecate on their heads."

Wait a minute. DoDo birds can't fly. Or can they?  ;)

Brent Hutto

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2007, 08:54:22 AM »
Round up the usual suspects.

We all know who they are.

Or do we?

wsmorrison

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2007, 10:34:30 AM »
Without knowing the logistics, I suggest that we shouldn't abandon OT subjects but have a separate discussion group for OT subjects.  Many of us are friends on here; come on Bill V, even you have a couple ;)  so I think we should encourage a platform to discuss fun things outside of golf architecture but in a way that does not bump posts from the first page or two. Can this be done given the way this website is structured?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2007, 11:51:55 AM »
I can't believe we have this discussion year after year.   We get the proclamation that any OT should be verboten.  We get the panic that some professional super or archie will loose his mind and go looney and post false and bombastic or controversial remarks.  

Yet, after all these years, how many annonymous posters have caused such a ruckus that the rest of us - as presumably intelligent adults can't recognise them for what they are, and agree or discount such annonymous controversial remarks, when they are misleading or false?  The few flame throwers that have been on GCA.com over the years were soon deleted, not because of controversial posts, but because of mean spiritedness.  There is no room for that!

We have enough confident supers and archies who do post under their real names, who are clearly recognised as top professionals in their fields, who act as 'go-to-guys' and references for the rest of us, when a controversial or technical topic is raised.  It works like peer review.

So, if an archie associate, wants to express him/herself on a matter, and it would jeopardise their position in a firm, then why not let them have their annonymous say?  The same with a super or an assistant super.  If such annonymous poster says something out of line, or mis-states a fact, thankfully we have enough respected posters in those fields who will point out the errors of their thinking, and the rest of us will pretty much understand who is the real authority on a matter in question.

Don't tell me that there aren't competent and well trained professional supers, assistants, and archies and associates that are not under the thumb of some tyrant boss or green committee gang of jackels.  It is a pity that such environments exist that people have to be in fear of telling what they know.  But, I personally have had this point clearly demonstrated to me a couple of times this very year, and often in the past.   Recently, I had communication with one archie associate and one super, (different matters) both of whom could not and would not allow their thoughts to be expressed in open discussion and ascribed to them, due to FEAR FOR THEIR POSITIONS!  

I am in favor of letting the status quo roll.  I don't know about you, but OT threads have never ruined my day. Annonymous posters have never left me shivering and screaming or crying or rolling on the floor in pain.  I am not afraid to respond to an annoymous poster who I think might be off base.  And if I do so, I'm willing to let my remarks be interpreted by the rest and give them the weight they do or do not deserve.  What's the real problem here folks?  Insecurity?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 11:54:59 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

TEPaul

Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2007, 01:18:50 PM »
Wayne:

You have a very good suggestion there. How difficult would it be for this site to just create another section on the menu for OT subjects and threads and if one showed up on here how hard is it for whoever deletes these posts and threads to just cut and copy it over to an OT section instead of just deleting it altogether?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2007, 01:19:40 PM by TEPaul »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2007, 01:49:04 PM »
I agree here 100% TEPaul.

When I first came on to this site, I mentioned this to Ran, but he didn't seem interested at the time.  I've seen this used on every other online board I've been to and its a good way to have a OT section.  If people don't want to view OT posts, then just head straight to the "Architecture" only section.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2007, 02:00:32 PM »
 8)

gca.com reminds me of an old boss's first email account on a VAX mainframe.. he didn't create any folders for dividing things up.. over 8,000 emails all strung out by date..

Its past time for the Locker Room Discussion Group to be split up into several topics or corners, something like:

gca-history & philosophy past
gca-playing fields, analytical & reviews present
gca-design, art, architecture, and planning future
OT-Golf Themed
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Calling Ran Morrissett
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2007, 03:38:28 PM »
I am always aware that I represent more than myself.  When I rate a course I am aware that I represent Glof Digest and my behavior needs to be appropriate.  As a clergyman I am also cognizant that I represent more than myself as well.  I have received some Instant messages from guys on this site upset that I have played so many courses and I must not be really dedicated to my job.

Supers also represent more than themselves. It is a tough call to figure out what and when to share some of your thoughts.  Yet, I don't think anonymity is the answer.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

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