[Peter Pallotta]

I thought this might be an interesting way to ask the question, as it allows for personal interpretation and maybe a variety of answers:  

The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings.
But mercy is above this sceptered sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings;
It is an attribute of God himself;
And earthly power doth then show like God's
When mercy seasons justice.

What courses temper justice with mercy?


Peter

[Bob_Huntley]

Peter,

I thought for one brief moment you were into S and M. Mercy was the code for "enough already."

I felt that at Carnoustie back in '91 in a hailstorm and 37 degree weather.

Bob

[Dan Kelly]

What courses temper justice with mercy?

I named my first cat (street cat, found at the pound) after the speaker of those lines. Thanks for the reminder; it's a wonderful soliloquy.

As for golf courses that temper justice with mercy:

How about The Old Course -- which gives you justice on the Road, and mercy at Home.

[TEPaul]

"What courses temper justice with mercy?"

In a general architectural sense I would say those courses that provide plenty of width with hazard features (that perhaps aren't overly large) sprinkled and interspersed amongst and inside that width do.

[Ken Moum]

Any course that appears to have been built with the understanding that the most exciting shot in golf is the recovery shot.

Reward good shots.

Don't reward bad shots.

But try to make even the guy who's in deep trouble think he has a way out.

If he missed the whole golf course hitting from a flat lie off a peg he isn't likely to get through that little opening from a sidehill lie off pine straw, but if he does, he'll remember it for weeks.

K

[G Jones]

Carnoustie shows mercy on you... after 18 holes it stops!

[Jay Flemma]

Well since I don't know any courses in Venice (Italy or Florida!)  I'll say world woods, Paako Ridge for openers...maybe Hiawatha Landing...

I never was a big fan of MOV.  I liked R&J and MacB much better.

[BCrosby]

Peter -

TOC
Probably ANGC circa 1936
Sand Hills
Cuscowilla


I had a girlfriend when I was in law school. She was working towards a Ph.D in English literature and spent most of an academic year worrying, talking and writing about that passage from The Bard.

I hadn't thought about it for a very, very long time. It was good to see it again. To reread it is like visiting with an old friend.

Bob  

[Peter Pallotta]

Bob - thanks. I was thinking about how/where "penal" and "strategic" might be best working together for a "total" golfing experience, but I didn't want to use those terms. While I think I know what they mean/are meant to describe, I'm not sure how they manifest themselves on various great courses.  

Jay - thanks. For me it's probably King Lear, but lines that worked for this didn't come to mind (except maybe the tragic "Never, never, never, never, never," which describes my experience with the occasional four-putt pretty well).

Peter

[John Chilver-Stainer]

If one follows the quote  - the course obviously doesn’t need any irrigation, and it has to be a “Royal” with some divine intervention.

I’ll go for Royal Devon and the hole has to be “the Cape” which looks like an ancient execution ground.

My prefered Shakespeare is MacB. and the quote referring to a pitch mark on the green. Mind you it could also be referring to a dog - better than naming your “Street Cat” after a car.

[Kirk Gill]

Many courses temper justice with too much mercy !

Bunkers that are too flat, too firm, too groomed.......they lose any quality of intimidation. Greens that are so soft that it doesn't matter what angle your approach comes from provided you can throw a dart the right distance........etc......

[BCrosby]

Peter -

I don't think the passage's relevance is the penal v. strategic distinction per se. I think of it a bit differently. (There is a lot more going on in the passage, as there always is with Will.)

To put it crudely (boy, my old girlfriend would kill me for this) it's about how you (a golf course) ought to dole out breaks, mercy, to others (a golfer).

It ought to be given without a grudge, "not strained". That's what makes it God-like.

Even the worst shots needn't result in disaster. There should be no locked-in correlation between the magnitude of the miss and the magnitude of the punishment. Strict rules of proportionality are not a good thing.

To the contrary, a recovery may come at any time. The course might give you back your foozle and when it does it will be given "as the gentle rain."

In which case you will not have beaten the course. It's the opposite. The course will have forgiven your failure.

Or something like that.

Bob





 

 

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The Lord is my caddie; I shall not want.
He maketh me to strike it down green fairways; he leadeth me beside the water hazard.
His hip-flask restoreth my soul; he leadeth me from the cart paths of unrighteousness for his tip’s sake.
Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Sin, I will fear no putt; for he is with me; my Ping and Pro V1 they comfort me.
Thou preparest a putt before me in the presence of mine enemies; thou anointest the sand green with oil; my putt runneth over. – DAMN!
Surely trophies and fame shall follow me all the days of my life; and I will dwell in the dormy house of Royal Lytham for ever.

There was a line about goodness and mercy in the last verse, but it got lost somewhere in translation.  Sorry.

[Tom_Doak]

Bob C:

I think you put this excellently:

Even the worst shots needn't result in disaster. There should be no locked-in correlation between the magnitude of the miss and the magnitude of the punishment. Strict rules of proportionality are not a good thing.

To the contrary, a recovery may come at any time. The course might give you back your foozle and when it does it will be given "as the gentle rain."

In which case you will not have beaten the course. It's the opposite. The course will have forgiven your failure.


One doesn't need to punish failure; one should only require that an imperfect tee shot leaves a more difficult struggle to make par or birdie.

[Dan Kelly]

I'm seeing a college course called "Shakespeare on Golf."

There must be a thousand Shakespearean passages (not even including the titles: "A Comedy of Errors," "Much Ado About Nothing," "All's Well That Ends Well") that could be entertainingly -- and occasionally instructively -- analyzed in golfy terms.

Just for fun, I threw an electronic dart at "The Complete Works of William Shakespeare" (http://shakespeare.mit.edu/) and hit "The Tempest" (Act V, Scene 1):

MIRANDA

    O, wonder!
    How many goodly creatures are there here!
    How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
    That has such people in't!

I can see the assignment now:

Compare and contrast Miranda's observation with the views expressed in Charles Blair Macdonald's "Scotland's Gift: Golf," Bob Rotella's "Golf Is Not a Game of Perfect," and Rick Reilly's "Who's Your Caddy?" (For extra credit: Compare Miranda's "brave new world" with the Discussion Group at www.golfclubatlas.com.)

[BCrosby]

Dan -

You and I both know that at bottom - Much Ado About Nothing is about Torrey Pines, A Comedy of Errors is about my golf game and All's Well That Ends Well is about a pain in the a#@ buddy who takes 45 minutes to tell you about his great recovery shot.

All those other glosses on Shakespeare that grad students have sweated over for decades were just getting us to this final, definitive interpretation.  

Bob

[TEPaul]

"I had a girlfriend when I was in law school. She was working towards a Ph.D in English literature and spent most of an academic year worrying, talking and writing about that passage from The Bard.
I hadn't thought about it for a very, very long time. It was good to see it again. To reread it is like visiting with an old friend."
Bob  


Well now, Roberto, it looks like you just supplied me with all the leverage I'll ever need over you. Henceforth, if you don't do everything I ask of you I'll just pick up the phone and report that to Betsy.

[BCrosby]

Errr.... Tom. Can we talk off line? Like, right away?

Bob

[BCrosby]

Dan - Can I do the session on Hamlet?

"To go for it or not to go for it, that is the question.
Or whether to bear the hoo hah's when you lay up..."

I'll stop now.

Bob

[Dan Kelly]

I'll stop now.

All's well that ends.

[Tom Huckaby]

Oh we can't end this just yet - I just saw this thread!

I volunteer a session on Richard III


Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this sun of Augusta

[TEPaul]

Hmmm, the subject of the proportionalety of miss to penalty and certainly strategy to penalty or the more sublime context of unstrained mercy or even the "God-like" probably needs to have even the best architects and certainly clubs who tend to change things remain vaguely vigilant or they may come to realize rather suddenly that they need to plant something like a "Lon Hinkle" tree or two here and there.

Even with the best of them this type of thing can pop up and surprise you from time to time particularly with dogleg holes and such that are fairly open that elbow into one another.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks to all, gents. Please continue offering some specific courses, in whatever "context" seems to make sense to you.

Dan, Bob. Tom H:
all I know for sure is that, after the winter of our discontent,  and when I get on the greens again I'll be "a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more."

Bob, Tom:
"In which case you will not have beaten the course. It's the opposite. The course will have forgiven your failure. One doesn't need to punish failure; one should only require that an imperfect tee shot leaves a more difficult struggle to make par or birdie."

Thanks. That's a very helpful way to put it: it explains a lot, and raises many other questions, and...well, a lot of other things.

Peter  

TE: I think "Hawkeye" should be your nickname from now on. How you quickly caught and then swooped down on Bob's little...err...admission was very impressive.  Sorry Bob; it's been nice knowing you.  

[Michael Moore]

Measure for Measure - me obsessing over distances with Rangefinder, sprinkler head and yardage book

King Lear  - Tiger Woods arriving in private jet

Tempest - cheaper to play Bandon in one

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