[mike_malone]

 How do you compare these types of courses , particularly as to the impact of the wind?

[Tommy Williamsen]

I love playing in, over, and around the dunes.  Ballybunion, St. Enodoc, Royal Birkdale and Royal St. George's are some of my favorite courses.  

On the other hand, I also love Pennard, The Old course, and Royal North Devon that do not have large dunes.  

I don't think the wind is different playing your shots in the dunes than on flatter pieces of property.  On your body it may be less windy behind a large dune , however.

[Tom_Doak]

The courses with the big dunes tend to be the ones which are most loved by Americans and most photographed ... Ballybunion is the epitome of that, Cruden Bay second.

The courses with modest dunes probably offer a fuller variety of golf.  The conditions which form big dunes generally don't form the littler contours which make the short game so interesting, so unless the architect shaped it in when he built the course, it probably isn't there.

[Lloyd_Cole]

How do you compare these types of courses , particularly as to the impact of the wind?

I've never been to a more windy course than Cruden Bay, and those dunes are about the biggest I've seen. So I don't think there any substantial protection from the wind afforded by the big 'uns.

[Mike Erdmann]

I'm thinking that a course with big dunes may somewhat shelter the player from the wind and make it more difficult to judge how strong the wind is up when the ball's in flight.  Not that they're massive dunes, but the outward nine at Royal Aberdeen would be an example of where you're tucked down below the dune ridge and it could potentially be more difficult to judge what the wind's going to do to your ball when it gets up above the protection of the dunes.

[mike_malone]

Tom,

  Your comment about the smaller contours is interesting. I will look for that on my Sept. trip to Ireland.I was looking at the golfarchitecturepictures site this afternoon. Carne is on the trip. As I worked my way  through the hundred or so pictures this thread came to me.

  I wondered whether those huge dunes would sometimes protect from the wind, sometimes funnel it, and sometimes create significant variations as the height varies.

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

Carne is another example of my thought, the greens complexes there are generally not very compelling.

With regard to how big dunes affect the wind ... I think they make it harder to judge, but I've never played in dunes so big that they block the wind's effect on an aerial shot.  There may be some anomalies from the wind ducking down over the dunes, but not as much as caused by trees on a windy day inland.

[Sean Walsh]

Tom,

It's been more than two years since I played it but does this hold true for Barnbougle.  From my memory the front 9 being played more through corridors in the dunes was less rumpled.  (Does 3 have what could be called a rumpled fairway? Was this primarily shaping or natural?).  The back 9 played on broad expanses of large dunes was more rumpled.  

I'm sure you can add more to my limited picture

[Jim Nugent]

The conditions which form big dunes generally don't form the littler contours which make the short game so interesting, so unless the architect shaped it in when he built the course, it probably isn't there.

Any notable exceptions to this, i.e. courses with big dunes that also have the smaller ones?  Looking at the pictures of Royal County Down made me wonder.  

Also, suppose you have the big dunes but not the smaller ones.  How hard is it to shape the littler contours?  Can they work from a playing standpoint, and also look natural to the site?  

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