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Dan Moore

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Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« on: March 16, 2007, 10:26:16 AM »
This one started out public, went private later then became a muni.  It is a couple hundred yards shorter today then it was originally due to the addition of the driving range and sale of land to the southwest for housing.  I think you can see the barest of outlines of the abandoned 9 hole par 3 course to the southwest in the 1939 image.  

1939


1998
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 01:40:20 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 12:54:23 PM »
Dan, I really can't figure some of this out.  The 1998 photo looks like there are still leaves on the trees of fall, or just new ones in spring, yet some of the greens look like they are covered.  You comparison photo series often suggests that the old course routings and set-ups were more interesting golf than most of the new ones, which tend to become confined by tree plantings, elimination of bunkers, creation of ponds and lakes, and general narrowing of the fields of play.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Adam Clayman

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 01:43:39 PM »
I'm baffeled too.

Any clues on where?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 02:25:46 PM »
looks like the RR line on the east has been abandoned...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

PCCraig

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Re:Chicago Aerial New
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 03:04:21 PM »
I almost didn't recognize it at first...but then the more I looked I found that I know it well!

I worked in the Pro Shop there for about 4 years. Not a bad course as long as you don't have to play a five and a half hour round.

This club was actually at one point the only course in America to have been completely lighted in the 30s or 40s I believe.

Pat

Perhaps a hint...The Clubhouse burnt down in 2003.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 08:52:18 AM by Pat_Craig »
H.P.S.

Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 12:07:34 PM »
RJ,

I don't have an explanation as to why some of the greens look covered.  I'll see if I can dig up the date the aerial was taken.  

Pat,

Only the par 3 nine hole course was illuminated, the first such experiment in the country which failed within 3 years.  

I haven't played there too often, but the last time I was there colorful news reporter Bulldog Drummond who often reports on local mob activities was there with his pull cart and bag of old clubs for his standing Sunday morning round.  

This architect has a number of other nearby courses to his credit and partnered with some other designers on a couple of very fine courses, but was better known as a superintendent and maintenance equipment innovator.  

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Adam Clayman

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 10:18:04 AM »
Wilmette!

The bulldog clue gave it away. I've actually golfed with him here.

 I honestly thought Wilmette but didn't think the home stretch looked quite right.

Thanks Dan,.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 10:21:05 AM »
Present day google earth image showing new 18th green either in play or nearly completed.  What are the other changes since 1998.  What's with the bunker in front of the green on 8?  That hole was seriously compromised for housing way back when.  Seems to me they could learn a few things from the original fairway bunkering scheme.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 01:39:49 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Phil McDade

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 12:52:28 PM »
Shivas:

Can you help a bit with the routing? I don't need the full 1 through 18, just a few basics -- I can figure out the rest.

Your, um, comments beg the question -- for such a nauseating experience, why play every day for so many years? I probably know the answer, for the same reason I play my local 9-hole, overtreed, rocks-instead-of-sand bunker muni -- it's convenient?


Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 01:14:33 PM »
Phil,

I added hole numbers to the google aerial.  I'm not sure they are all correct.  

This a very good value for residents of Wilmette and as a result it is very full almost all the time.  Nearby alternatives include the Glen Club for well over $100.00.  As an example of what's available in Chicago, its one of the reasons, notwithstanding the hour drive, why Spring Valley will be my home course this year.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2007, 01:42:01 PM »
Thanks.   Hole numbers have been fixed.




"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Phil McDade

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2007, 01:55:41 PM »
Why would anyone put a bunker center front of a green and not let balls funnel into it? You might as well dig a well there. #5 does look like a pretty cool hole -- I like the intermittant fairway bunkering scheme, the bunker sizes, and the angle of the green away from the fairway on a straightaway hole. What did they do to the green to ruin it? Flatten it? How long does it play?

Phil McDade

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2007, 02:25:35 PM »
That's a good, textbook example of how to screw up TWO holes by efforts to lengthen something and make it more "challenging."

I don't know how 16 plays, but I absolutely can't stand architects using those little groupings of pot bunkers, like some dog-architect came by and crapped out a bunch of sandtraps. RTJ Jr. used a whole bunch of them -- as in, more than a dozen -- on a single approach shot on a par 5 (on good terrain, no less!) at Madison's University Ridge, one of many reasons I think the course is over-rated.

Eric_Terhorst

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2007, 08:34:17 PM »
Shivas,

Thanks for helping me understand why every round at Wilmette seems interminable, whether it's 4:45 (my usual experience) or less (rare, but I've never teed off at 0615).  

The waits and the golf course are both annoying.

An afternoon at Jans National is more fun!

Adam Clayman

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2007, 08:51:34 PM »
Wasn't the old routing 10-15 then over to 6-9? And the old backnine is 1-5 finishing with 15-18?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PCCraig

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 02:24:11 PM »
I sure find that the Golf world is a small one, with all of the great golf courses to discuss and yet my local muni is the one that comes up in an aerial!

While I can think of a ton of people that cannot stand it, I do enjoy the little things that made Wilmette a neat place to play and hang out. Like I said I worked in the Pro Shop for close to five years and learned to play the game there. So I may have a small bias.

The golf course is really one that is defined by change, but in small margins. While restorations and redesigns are all the rage, Wilmette is about changing brick by brick.

The routing has changed over the years, from playing the now current 18 holes to starting on #10-14/15-18 and back. I thought the old routing was a little better because it used to first travel on the outside of the small 90 acre or so property for the first nine and worked on the inside for the back nine. The back had a neat semi quick pace with some fun birdie holes.

The course has gone through yet another big change when the clubhouse burnt down but more on that in a second.

A few hole descriptions;

#1- The new starting hole used to be a bit of a filler hole, but it could be a better starting hole because it is a lot easier than the now tenth. The only real trouble on the hole is the out of bounds driving range on the right side of the hole. For the most part it is a 3-wood/8-Iron to an elevated green sided with two huge bunkers on the left and right.

#2- A middle length par 3 was lengthened by about 20 yards in the 1999 updating. There is now a small tee box guarded by evergreens and backed up against the ninth tee. This hole otherwise has been unchanged for years and features an original green. The green is fronted with a big bunker in front (and road) and features a tough up and down if you miss the green.

#3- A hole much like #1 where the big trouble is trying not to slice it onto the range. There is a good bunker about 250 away from the tee and large trees down the left side of the fairway that urge you to aim at the left egde of the bunker. The green is almost the exact same as #1.

#4- This hole features the most insane placement of a new teebox in the history of golf. In 1999 they added a new back tee---behind a series of elm trees which in order to miss you had to tee the ball on the far left side of the box, as well as hit an extreme cut over the 12th green. The only real landing area for a driver is the bunker in the fairway. It's too bad because the green on this hole is one of the better on the course, subtle and original it is only guarded by a small bunker on the left. The green has a large hump directly in the middle, making shots to the right side of the green a must. During warm winters with no snow, we would putt and practice on this hole. (They only cover the newer greens durring winter, which may explain the aerial.)

#5- This hole has been fooled around with a bunch since 1999, which I, like Shivas, agree was far far better to begin with. It used to have a really hard green, which was much more interesting than the now flat green. It has always been close to a driver/wedge hole, and the old green was a much harder shot to hit close, you had to actually favor the right side of the hole and flirt with the trees in order to get a semi striaght shot at the pin. Now its mostly bang it long left of the green and chip up. They added length to the hole by using the old #16 teebox which didn't accomplish much.

#6- A longer dogleg right par-5 which hugs the forest preserve on the right was mangled a bit in 1999. The actual dogleg point used to be home to a series of three very large Willow trees, which apparently too many people were hitting into and slowing play. So they cut the first two down to speed up play, they also split the larger fairway bunker into two smaller ones. The old trees used to make you actually hit away from the dogleg, in order for you to have a shot at getting further down the fairway. This green is also an original and is pretty neat. OB close right, long, and left. And a large hump in the front of the green that makes a front center pin brutal.

#7- Another medium par-3 that was gutted by Nugent in the 80's I believe. The green used to sit on top of a small hill/mound. Now it is half over water, but considering the pin is never on the left side of the hole no one has ever hit directly over the water. The green actually is not bad, with a HUGE, not subtle hump in the middle. Big mounds in the back make long shots hard up and downs.

#8- Redone in 1999 along with #5, the two greens back into the same complex. This isn't the hardest hole in the world, you pretty much hit a driver over the low trees on the right and go from there. The green was moved over left of the semi existant bunker. To make room for a new tee on #9. They planted about 40 3 foot high evergreens on the left side of the hole ontop of mounds. They gobble up hooks pretty quickly.

#9- Huge bunker in the left center of the fairway completly rules the hole. Even if you try to hit it over there really is no point because the hole is almost all rough and trees. This green is also an original and features two neat bunkers on the front either side of the green. I think years of over filling resulted in the bunkers actually being above the level of the green! It's generally the softest bunker shot you will ever have to hit. The parking lot is also about five yards behind the green and I would suggest not parking in that area.
-------
#10- The old #1 has since be deemed "Matchen's Monster" by an old write up that the weekday starter wrote up a couple years ago. For the most part the long time super, "Matchen" decided to redo the hole about 15 years ago. I believe he was the one responsible for removing the bunkers inbetween this hole and 18, and purposly pointed the tee box into the trees on the right. He also added the mounding around the green which acts like a bumper, funneling shots back to the green. This was always not an easy hole for someone who likes to hit a draw.

#11 Longer Par 4 which had a back tee installed in 1999. The big problem for the golfer on this hole is to make sure that you stay away from the pond in front. And the cartpath with separates the green from OB (and which enjoys bouncing your balls OB at times.) Off the tee you almost have to hit over two large overgrown evergreens in order to not be blocked out by willows on the left side.

#12- My favorite par 3 on the course, added a new back tee to the hole in 1999 to make it close to 210 from the tees. Plays far longer due to the green being smaller that the front hood of my car. There are no bunkers on this hole, but with so many people missing the green in reg, makes for some fun up and downs.

#13- A par 4 through the trees. Tight first shot is followed by a neat origional green guarded by tight woods on the right and a bunker short left. Anything long goes into a semi collection area behind the green. The green itself is not overly hard, but is subtle, as are most of the older greens.

#14- The "Signature" hole of Wilmette. Super tight 2-iron/wegde hole through the trees with three huge bunkers around. One in the middle left of the fairway making sure you cant hit a driver. The other funny part of this hole is the "rough" on the right between the fairway and out of bounds forest preserve has absolutly no grass...its hard packed dirt. So anything right is bouncing OB. Someone once told me that they did Stats for an early morning group that plays there on Saturdays and that the #14 is the hardest hole, despite being pretty short.

#15- Really cool hole with a really neat green. Another original. The green is tiny and has two deep bunkers in front and hardpan long. Only about a long iron wedge, but a very tight little hole.

#16- Short par 3 which used to have two sets of tees. Now only uses the left side. There used to be a large bunker on the left side to hit over, but was transformed to a series of small little pot bunker things that don't look quite right. Moving the tees right also took the water out of play in front. It used to be a fun little P Wedge par 3 over water, now it's a semi-hard 9-Iron.

#17- This Par 5 has two main things that make it what it is. Santa's Village a series of evergreens, featuring small ball stealing gnomes  on the right about 260 out, and a Nugent beach bunker next to the green. Not a horrible hole, and it's fun to give it a rip in two.

#18- There is alot that was done wrong when they re-did this hole after the fire. What used to be a hard 450-finishing hole to a tough green is now a little odd. The green was moved to where the old putting green was located and the old 18th green shaped into a putting green.

The story behind this move is a little strange. After the Clubhouse was burned down in 2002, the club was operating out of trailers in the parking lot. When deciding on where to place the new clubhouse they found that the ideal location would be between the 9th and 18th greens on the far side, where the trailers were currently. The problem was that they found that it would cost them something like $10,000 to move the trailers and they would have to close the course for a day or so to do it. They found that price too much, and instead came up with the idea of flipping nines and moving the 18th hole to the back of the new clubhouse. The only real reason they switched around the nines was so that instead of taking a hard turn from #9 to 10, you had to pass the snack bar on your way across the property.

Overall though the place was one of a kind before the Fire, with some great guys playing and working out there all the time. It's definatly worth the time for a play sometime on a spring or fall weekday when the crowds are not too bad.

Pat


H.P.S.

Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 10:32:20 PM »
One of the best threads I've ever seen on a course. Club greens chairman who have the chore of overseeing changes to their club ought to read it!
A little history: The course opened as Northwestern University GC in 1926 (Dan mentioned how it was public first, but I wonder), but was known as Wilmette GC by 1933 at the latest. West Wilmette Illuminated was running by then, but not for long.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 10:34:06 PM by Tim_Cronin »
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Dan Moore

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 09:57:05 AM »
Tim,

Here is the history of the course from their website.  According to them Northwestern didn't buy the course until 1944.  I seem to recall something about NU having a 9 hole course before they obtained the Wilmette course.

http://www.golfwilmette.com/page/190-5931.htm
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Tim_Cronin

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Re:Chicago Aerial:Wilmette GC Joe Roseman
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 10:10:26 PM »
Dan,
Thanks for the link. It explains plenty, and takes "Playmore" off my list of mystery courses. Interesting that Northwestern was buying a course about the same time as U. of Chicago was selling its course (the donated Mill Road Farm).
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer