Has your time spent on GCA really changed your opinion of what courses you like?

[cary lichtenstein]

We all spend alot of time reading post after post on GCA.

I'm wondering if you opinion of what courses you like has substantially changed as a result or if your opinion of different architects work has substantially changed?

[redanman]

Not a whit.

Trips to play links change my mind more than anything else.

Secondly, what I do find is that when I play golf courses by the same architect in different places, I gain better perspective on what the talent really is or is not.

Thirdly, the more I play, the more I see.  Trained to work in a 3-D environment for my primary career, my 3-D memory and visualization only gets better.

Reading on here gives me insight into other people's perceptions and tells me about places I might not have heard about yet.  

[rjsimper]

I would say it definitely changed the courses that I either go out of my way to play or the courses that I choose over other options in the same geographic area.  

I don't think it's changed what I actually like when I am out on the golf course, except maybe for noticing things I wouldn't have before.

[Brad Tufts]

I think the biggest thing that has changed my mind about courses is full-time work.

I realize now that the bottom line is that any golf is better than no golf, and even if you are playing The Quagmire at Methane Swamp, golf is better than another day at your desk.

Of course I still try to play good courses and places that interest me architecturally, but I think work has made me less of a golf course snob.

GCA's biggest value to me, beyond the excellent discourse, is getting to know courses in areas far from your own, so you know where to go if you someday find yourself there.

[mike_malone]

 Nothing has changed "substantially". That is asking too much. But, I have changed somewhat in my views of modern non minimalist architecture and its creators. I find it more interesting now even though most of the time it is panned here. I guess my contrary nature just gets me to be more open when the crowd seems less so.

[Peter Pallotta]

Cary
my time here has brought an ironic and surprising benefit:

learning about great architecture and courses has helped me to see some of the more modest courses that I tend to play in a new light.  

The features/opinion pieces and the insights of the posters from various POVs has opened my eyes to interesting features and strategic options that even very basic and low-cost courses have to offer; I'm looking forward to playing them again to add that component to the main one, which is simply playing golf.

The site has also helped me also to appreciate the challenges/decisions that any designer is faced with and has to make...and how many different ways there are for people to experience and rate those decisions.

Peter

[Ken Moum]

What changed my opinions was reading... in order:

Driving the Green
Anatomy of a Golf Course
Spirit of St. Andrews
Golf Course Architecture in America

Those were followed by a run GCA books by Geoff Shack, Doak/Haddock, Klein, etc.

Then I read Geoff's "Grounds for Golf," and the conversion was pretty much complete. It's my perception that it had the biggest effect of all, but I'm not sure that I would have been ready to change without all the other stuff preceding it.

K

[Lloyd_Cole]

learning about great architecture and courses has helped me to see some of the more modest courses that I tend to play in a new light.  
 

I'll second that. I'm also more inclined, now, to seek out an old potentially undamaged nine holer, nearby, than spend $$ on a trip to S.C.
Regarding what I like, I have slightly better understanding of what that is, I think. I also think I'm likely to be more impressed by use of gentle undulation than more extreme terrain.

[Eric Franzen]

I categorically avoid courses with catch baisins since March 3rd.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I think I have become slightly more cautious in sharing my enthusiasms.  A particular example is Delamere Forest which disappointed a number of GCA regulars when they played it at the time of last year's Buda Cup.  They didn't think much of the greens.  Was I wrong to encourage them to visit Delamere rather than do battle uncertainly against the horrors of the M6 to play Beau Desert, another Fowler course of unimpeachable quality?  

[Matt_Cohn]

At first, spending time on this site caused me to like fewer courses, because I could find more things wrong with them. But over time I've learned to find more things right with courses, too. Lincoln Park is a great example, because there are some features there that should be fun - for example, a lot of ground movement - and understanding those features allowed me some enjoyment on a course that, five years ago, I would never have enjoyed at all.

[tlavin]

It has helped immeasurably in my education of what constitutes good and bad architecture, resulting in more informed opinions as I walk around golf courses.  I used to greatly favor heavily treelined fairways, because I was "used to the look", but now I appreciate the fact that the intrusion of trees not only negatively affects the turfgrass, but also the ability of the golfer to see and use all of the golf hole.  I never would have had any great appreciation for links courses if I had never gotten familiar with this site.  It has been a very pleasant eye-opener for moi.

[Jeff_Brauer]

no.

[Steve Lang]

 

nope.  

my opinions are not easily changed.. i still like trees on golf courses, i appreciate f&f but i don't dis a course for not having or seeking it etc.. flat, rolling, hilly, sandy, watery, windy can all be features of good gca examples and locales of note

on the flip side, my opinion of critics and raters has changed.. and for the most part, not for the better

[Andy Troeger]

I still have my preferences, but I think I have a better understanding of what the architect is trying to do with certain features. It has assisted me with giving courses a more thorough look that goes beyond whether its a housing course, tree-lined course, links course, or anything else.

I will say though that this group has a good batting average when it comes to course recommendations. There are a couple that I haven't either liked or understood, but many more that I've seen that I maybe would not have without this DG.

[Andrew Mitchell]

My preferences for the type of course I like (links and heathland) haven't changed through the time I've spent here on GCA but I've gained a greater understanding of how such courses evolved and I think I appreciate them much more now.

This site has also alerted me to and enabled me to play courses which had not previously registered with me (St Enodoc; Silloth on Solway to name but two).  It has also led to new friends and given me the opportunity to play courses that my usual golfing buddies would not agree to play, either because of cost or a lack of interest in so doing - courses such as Hoylake, Lytham and Muirfield.

[Guy Phelan]

no

After growing up on a Tillinghast course and being blessed to play many of the "greats," including Merion by the time I was 16, my thoughts are pretty much set on golf course architecture. But I do enjoy reading the thoughts of others.

[Bill_McBride]

I think I have become slightly more cautious in sharing my enthusiasms.  A particular example is Delamere Forest which disappointed a number of GCA regulars when they played it at the time of last year's Buda Cup.  They didn't think much of the greens.  Was I wrong to encourage them to visit Delamere rather than do battle uncertainly against the horrors of the M6 to play Beau Desert, another Fowler course of unimpeachable quality?  

Mark, me thinks you doth protest too much!  

I haven't gone back and reviewed my comments, or those of the GCA brethren who joined me at those two fine courses, but I believe we said we really, truly enjoyed Delamere Forest but that the greens seemed to have been flattened at some time as they were not as contoured as Beau Desert's.

I don't think that's a particularly negative comment about DF, and certainly none was intended.  I could happily spend a week there playing that outstanding routing and solid golf holes.

The distinction was that the greens of the second Fowler course, of approximately the same vintage, were of superior interest.   Delamere Forest is terrific and in some ways I preferred it to Beau Desert - the clubhouse most particularly, and the views from the clubhouse of the 9th and 18th greens side by side there.

Comparing two courses you play one after the other requires some preference I think; only the greens separated the two in my mind.

[edit]  I replied before seeing Sean Arble's response above.  Without coaching, I believe we are on exactly the same page!  

And please don't EVER consider not posting your expert opinions on UK golf or anything else; you are one our most cherished resources here on GCA.com.  I'm not kidding in the slightest and appreciate your input.  I have learned to truly love golf in the UK for a variety of reasons, I only wish our golf here in the US could be as accessible and consisitently entertaining.

[Brian Joines]

I would say that my time on GCA has changed my opinions on golf courses a lot. I've always been interested in golf courses and the architecture but I've learned most of what I know either directly or indirectly from this site. (All the books I've read have been recommended on GCA) I have definitely seen my list of courses that I would love to play change quite a bit since joining this site years ago. I played Sherwood CC twice last week and while I did enjoy my time there, it would have been one of my favorite courses prior to joing GCA. Now I am better able to evaluate the architectural merit of a course and that has definitely affected which courses I prefer.

[Doug Bolls]

I am still trying to figure out what to look for in a great golf course.  This site has made me more aware of looking at, and trying to understand, what I am looking at as I play a golf course.  What is the architect trying to do here? kind of questions.  
For example, today I played The Judge on the RTJ Golf Trail in AL.  I remember one hole had a very nice hollowed out area in the center of the fairway - so, if I hit the ball down the middle, I had the advantage of a nice bounce into a good lie.  I liked that reward for a good drive.
I also recoginized a pretty good copy of the famous over-the water hole at Cypress Point in # 16 here  - bail out fairway and all.  I would not have even considered that without what I have read on this site.
I would love to have someone like TPaul take me by the hand and walk me around Pine Valley on Crump Cup Sunday - just talk to about what I am seeing.  What is it that defines great architecture and how can I better recognize it.
So much to learn!
DB
 

[TEPaul]

good question gary, and honestly I don't really know how to answer it. I've learned a lot from people on here and this website but absolutely nowhere near as much as the real thing---personal contact with architects and time spent on project sites. One could spend their life on here, and productively, but it will never help them truly undertand golf course architecture as much as spending a couple of days on a project site---or honestly trying to do a routing on a piece of land themselves.

but as far as time spent on gca and the courses I like---there really is something that keeps coming back to me and that's when Bill Coore said to me about NGLA; "How did they have the guts to do something like this". That one, I'm afraid I may never completely figure out but I'm still having fun trying.

[David Ober]

Absolutely, positively YES.

I find that I like "rustic" or "unkempt" looking bunkers and firm and fast conditions far, far more now than I ever did before.

The following courses are now on my "must play before I die" list, and I never had even heard of them before I joined this place:

NLGA
Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Bandon Trails
Sand Hills

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