Question: How narrow can a green be...?

[Adam_F_Collins]

On a long par 4, how narrow can a long and narrow green be before it's too narrow? How long is long enough? (assuming 'average normal' conditions of environment).

[TEPaul]

I do not recall a noticeably or memorably narrow green on a long par 4 but two really narrow greens come to mind on two other holes---eg the famous short par 4 10th at Riviera (in the rear its only 6-7 paces wide (that's really narrow)) and the 9th at Myopia, a shortish par 3 is only about 10-12 paces wide and really long. The latter hole, by the way, is over a hundred years old.

Let me ask you something, Adam. Did something about the general over reliance by architects on sand bunkers to create strategies happen to inspire your plethora of recent threads about greens and coming at them from various angles?

[Tom_Doak]

Adam:

The Postage Stamp at Troon is 24 to 30 feet wide (and 93 feet deep), but it's hardly practical since even a hole in the middle of the green is pretty close to the edge.

The two narrowest greens on long par 4's which I can recall are the Road green at St. Andrews (if you measure the width from the road to the bunker) and the ninth at Ballybunion.  The former is 14 paces wide, the latter 15, and both are elevated with shaved banks and difficult recoveries from anywhere except right in front.  That was generally the number I paced off anytime I saw a really narrow green in my travels overseas, 15 paces.

[Paul_Turner]

Sea Headrig (13th) at Prestwick seemed narrow.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I’ve seen greens with 9 pace widths on “shelf greens” where the original slope topography restricted the shape of the green.
It depends a lot on wether the ball can be fed in from the green surrounds.
If it’s surrounded with bunkers or has steep fall offs then a thin green would only spell trouble.

How low can you go before it’s stupid?
Well it’s about pin positions and wear and tear - and of course what the golfer’s are willing to put up with. I can’t imagine any top tier golf course having a 9 pace width green - but at the low end - anything goes as long as you can play golf.

[Jeff_Brauer]

From a maintenance perspective, I have found greens less than 40 foot wide (plus collar) tend to wear quicker than ones wider.  There is just not enough room side to side to move the, say, middle pin.

From a play standpoint, with a 7% lateral dispersion pattern typical, a 100 yard wedge shot would require at least 21 foot width, but unless a par 3, we can't count on all players having that short a shot.  And, in the great outdoors, it would likely look a little puny anyway.

I have designed narrow necks of greens (like the front of the T shaped Par 3 12th at Fortune Bay) as narrow as 35 feet wide, as long as the whole green isn't that narrow.

[David Ownby]

I don't know the exact dimensions (and it's been a few years since I've been there), but the 4th green at Spyglass can't be more than 10 or 12 paces wide.

[Philippe Binette]

I haven't pace it but for a 410 yards par 4 the 16th green at North Berwick west links is quite narrow.

especially considering the shaved banks on the sides and multiple contours short, it's one of the smallest targets i've ever seen.

I would love to see the green in regulation percentage on that green for tour pros with a 10mph wind. I doubt it would be more than 20% if the pin is on the front plateau. especially since if you hit the wrong plateau, it's a GIR but you have more chance making 6 than 4

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

The 4th at Spyglass is a dream. Jim Lipe did a reverse version being #15 at the University Club in Baton Rouge. The greens cannot be more than 20 feet wide.

[Adam_F_Collins]

So what would qualify as 'narrow' on a long par four?

[Patrick_Mucci]

The 13th at Pine Tree was 7-8 yards wide and at a 30-45 degree angle.

The 12th at ANGC is also narrow at the waist.